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A system for my barn / workshop; what would you do?

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  • A system for my barn / workshop; what would you do?

    To start I'm skilled in electricity and wiring but a relative newbie to solar power setups. I have a small one in my wife's shed for a light and a webcam but it's a cheapie amazon deal with a marine battery I had kicking around.

    Here is what I have and my guiding principles for what I want to do. The system is for my barn and workshop, not a living quarters.
    The barn is in the middle of a 12 acre field on the SC shore so unrelenting sunshine is available all the time in any direction I want.
    I only want to power a few things and there is zero need for any backup power or generator.
    I want the system to be a good quality one but it doesn't need to be plated in gold, I also don't mind if I need to scale upwards in batteries or panels if necessary. I prefer to decrease my needs than increase batteries and panels.
    There will be no connection to the utility, it will be 100% off grid (I know this is obvious by the forum section but I wanted to put it in there anyways)
    Here is what want to power:

    200 watts of lights
    500 watts of audio / TV
    Refrigerator - 120v / 15A / 1800W - this is optional and can be left off

    very very occasional use, one or the other but never both at the same time;
    Compressor – 220v / 15A / 3300W
    OR
    Saw – 120v / 13A / 1600W

    If a system can support a 220volt 30amp welder then wonderful, otherwise i'll leave that off.

    What would you build to run this? Any suggestions are welcome!

  • #2
    Hello jpbellis and welcome to Solar Panel Talk

    Well if it was me I would first determine how many watt hours I will use each day based only on the lights and audio system. If you know what that frig will use you can add that to the total but again a refrigerator usually uses a lot of watt hours and can significantly raise the cost of your solar/battery system

    Next I would find a small inverter type generator and use it to run the compressor , saw and welder. The cost to run them on solar/batteries is prohibitively high and IMO a wast of your money since those loads are not used daily.

    Just a rule of thumb. It has been costing about $1500/kWh a system can safely provide. So if you total a 1000watt hours (1kWh) as your daily load you will probably end up spending about $1500. If you use more kWh then expect an increase of cost.
    Last edited by SunEagle; 04-03-2020, 06:07 PM.

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks for the answer. I can't associate any real daily usage needs.... Some days I'll be out there working some days not. When I'm there I'll pop the stereo on and do whatever. The only regular use will be the fridge, if I even put one there.
      \Based on your response I suspect the inverter generator sound to be the best immediate surge use device? May I ask (for my own clarity) when you say inverter generator are you talking a inverter off the batteries or an actual fuel generator?

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      • #4
        Inverter generators are expensive and have low surge capacity. our eu2000 cannot start a circular saw, I have to bump the switch several times to build up speed before I can hold it down to cut. You may be better off getting a 4kw conventional generator, saving the $ for investment in solar at a future date.

        A generator uses an engine of some sort, to drive a rotating electrical power producer.

        A inverter takes DC and converts it to household AC power

        An inverter generator has a gas engine that spins a multiphase alternator, that output is rectified to DC and then inverted to household AC. With that system it becomes easy to vary the engine speed to only produce enough DC power to invert to meet the AC load. When you have large or intermittent loads, the engine has to play catch-up and sometimes the output shuts off or the engine stalls.
        Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
        || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
        || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

        solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
        gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by jpbellis View Post
          Thanks for the answer. I can't associate any real daily usage needs.... Some days I'll be out there working some days not. When I'm there I'll pop the stereo on and do whatever. The only regular use will be the fridge, if I even put one there.
          \Based on your response I suspect the inverter generator sound to be the best immediate surge use device? May I ask (for my own clarity) when you say inverter generator are you talking a inverter off the batteries or an actual fuel generator?
          An actual generator. The "inverter" type provide a pretty good sine wave and will be better as a power source for motors like the compressor and saw. You can find a number of dual fuel (gas and propane) type that will increase your ability to find fuel.

          Although they are usually rated low in KW. You may need a larger unit that can handle the inrush of a large load. But they can be found either dual or propane rated

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Mike90250 View Post
            Inverter generators are expensive and have low surge capacity. our eu2000 cannot start a circular saw, I have to bump the switch several times to build up speed before I can hold it down to cut.

            That's interesting. My eu2000 will run anything that a regular 15 amp outlet at home (on the grid) will run. Circular saw, belt sander, bench top planer, miter saw, etc.

            Comment


            • #7
              Thanks again everyone for the thoughtful and complete responses. I wont even consider a fuel generator. The whole purpose is to avoid burying a 300' service from my house. If it comes down to a gas generator I'll just hook the barn up to utility power and be done with it.

              Comment


              • #8
                Utility connection is a solution, but do check out the initial and ongoing costs. Here
                I bought 4/0 aluminum triplex direct burial wire for $600 free delivery. That is equal
                to 2/0 copper but far cheaper. The gauge may be over sized for the current, but
                will minimize voltage drop over the distance. good luck, Bruce Roe

                Comment


                • #9
                  No question. Run a 60 amp circuit out to that location.
                  Way back when, rural electrification was thought to be incredibly expensive - but it has paid off well.
                  BSEE, R11, NABCEP, Chevy BoltEV, >3000kW installed

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by jpbellis View Post
                    Thanks again everyone for the thoughtful and complete responses. I wont even consider a fuel generator. The whole purpose is to avoid burying a 300' service from my house. If it comes down to a gas generator I'll just hook the barn up to utility power and be done with it.
                    Well I agree that it might be cheaper in the long run to just run grid power out to the building.

                    A side note. Anyone that has some type of battery system still needs to be able to charge it either from the grid or from a generator. If you don't have that option then more than likely the battery will never last as long as you expect because solar sometimes will not be able to get it back to 100% charge.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by SunEagle View Post

                      If you don't have that option then more than likely the battery will never last as long as you expect because solar sometimes will not be able to get it back to 100% charge.
                      I think that's the shortfall that'll end my solar consideration. I was hopeful that I could have a solar setup that would run my (seemingly to me) small and very sporadic needs. 99% of the time its a bank of LED lights and tv / stereo. Occasionally a compressor or saw or maybe a garage door opener, but no where near the level of use a commercial garage would require. A few minutes here or there. I never imagined i'd beat up batteries with that level of usage.

                      I don't mind up-front costs if the system will perform for me but it's beginning to sound like it's just not capable. This has been a tremendous learning experience for me, I'm glad I found this forum.

                      John

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by jpbellis View Post

                        I think that's the shortfall that'll end my solar consideration. I was hopeful that I could have a solar setup that would run my (seemingly to me) small and very sporadic needs. 99% of the time its a bank of LED lights and tv / stereo. Occasionally a compressor or saw or maybe a garage door opener, but no where near the level of use a commercial garage would require. A few minutes here or there. I never imagined i'd beat up batteries with that level of usage.

                        I don't mind up-front costs if the system will perform for me but it's beginning to sound like it's just not capable. This has been a tremendous learning experience for me, I'm glad I found this forum.

                        John
                        I agree that I was also upset that my small system did not provide me the watt hours I wanted to run some of my tools and cost much more than a small generator. So I try to explain to people the ins and outs of going off grid even in a small way. It is possible but it will also cost you more then expected depending on the type of load you want to run.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          It all boils down to load management. If tomorrow is expected to be poor weather, do not run the big power tools today and flatten the battery, because it won't recharge.
                          Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
                          || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
                          || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

                          solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
                          gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Mike90250 View Post
                            It all boils down to load management. If tomorrow is expected to be poor weather, do not run the big power tools today and flatten the battery, because it won't recharge.
                            I get it and for some that level of uncertainty may well be just fine. For my needs though, if I need an air hammer to fix the tractor, or a saw to repair something else I sure don't want the weather to dictate if I can or can't. This has been a great learning experience!

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