Prius as backup generator with midnight classic as voltage converter possible?

[Mike90250]

running the classics output directly to the batteries will help eliminate the false overcurrent protection triggers. the length of wire between your battery and the inverter will act as a sort of softening resistor so when there's heavy loads that start up the classic will have an easier time reacting and limiting itself properly without hurting its fets.........

Just remember inductive kickback can happen with long lengths. It's length with resistance, that damps the kickback. But resistance lowers efficiency.... good luck

[travissand]

So here's an update about how much power I'm getting per gallon. My average nightly consumption has gone up since there's cheaper power available now compared to running the Honda inverter generator. Looks like I get about a week on a fill-up so that's 8 gallons per 7 days. On this estimate I used 10.451 gallons over the course of 8 days. The Prius was putting out around 449 w on average for a round 16 hours per day. Although it was probably on for 18 or 19 hours per day but the sun was out for some of that time so it wasn't really contributing much. This is a waste of fuel because it's randomly running regardless.

In 8 days I received 56.6 kilowatt hours from the Prius.

I received an average of 7.08 kilowatt hours per day.

Divide that by 126 hours (about 8 days) and that comes out to an average of 449 Watts continuously.

I've burned 1.3g over the 16-hour run time per day.

$3.50 per gallon is $4.55 per day.

$4.55 for every 7.08 kilowatt hours is $0.64 per kwh.

I am very happy with these numbers and I see room for a 30% efficiency improvement with the same average consumption with my previously mentioned alterations. So many people here on the grid paying nearly the same amount per kilowatt-hour. then so many people off the grid spending tens of thousands on their solar system that wish they were on the grid when in fact they could have a Prius generator and no solar system at all.

[travissand]

Yesterday I hooked the 250 volts coming from my Prius to a Tesla powerwall inverter at the solar panel input. The inverter was exporting 6000w from the Prius to the grid. It worked for about 4 minutes and then inverter said arc fault and shut down. I tried miscellaneous testing off grid like I could run things like a resistive cooktop. But the arc fault error would show up randomly. The software in the inverter clearly is not handling the DC power from the Prius very well and it was too annoying to consider as a viable option. Wile it works though it works pretty nice. It takes the power from the Prius and converts it directly to ac 240 volts. This inverter does not need a battery to stabilize its AC output , with a slight work around it takes solar in and throws AC out completely off grid. I was hoping this could be the kind of inverter you put in the trunk to take with you camping or something but it's just too irritating having to clear the arc fault error all the time!

[travissand]

Travissand, I received my Classic 250 late yesterday and now I’m travelling for 1 week. Maybe, at your convenience, you could give me your latest settings to copy? I would appreciate the setup details. I was planning on using a run of shielded number 10 wire left over from a deep well install. I would pass high voltage DC from the car to my small ‘battery house’ (25’ cable length) and install my Classic beside the other 2 Classics connecting my solar panels. My DIN rail have a place for another breaker. Should I feed my Classic output into bank direct or add it to my current 48v bus?

Have you tried it out yet?

[J.P.M.]

So here's an update about how much power I'm getting per gallon. My average nightly consumption has gone up since there's cheaper power available now compared to running the Honda inverter generator. Looks like I get about a week on a fill-up so that's 8 gallons per 7 days. On this estimate I used 10.451 gallons over the course of 8 days. The Prius was putting out around 449 w on average for a round 16 hours per day. Although it was probably on for 18 or 19 hours per day but the sun was out for some of that time so it wasn't really contributing much. This is a waste of fuel because it's randomly running regardless.

In 8 days I received 56.6 kilowatt hours from the Prius.

I received an average of 7.08 kilowatt hours per day.

Divide that by 126 hours (about 8 days) and that comes out to an average of 449 Watts continuously.

I've burned 1.3g over the 16-hour run time per day.

$3.50 per gallon is $4.55 per day.

$4.55 for every 7.08 kilowatt hours is $0.64 per kwh.

I am very happy with these numbers and I see room for a 30% efficiency improvement with the same average consumption with my previously mentioned alterations. So many people here on the grid paying nearly the same amount per kilowatt-hour. then so many people off the grid spending tens of thousands on their solar system that wish they were on the grid when in fact they could have a Prius generator and no solar system at all.

So, your calculated price/kWh comes out to ~ ~ $0.64.
That may be fine for emergency power, and maybe folks around you are paying nearly the same amount/kWh, but I'd like to see some numbers backing up your claim.
Some of the highest electricity rates in the U.S. are in CA.
There may be some locations where a per kWh rate may be higher than your $0.64/kWh, but they are not common. I've found one: Tiered rates for the 400+ % over baseline for SDG & E sch. DR and that rate is for a closed schedule.
Most T.O.U. rates for SDG & E and SCE run ~ $0.42 - 0.45 or so per kWh for summer peak rates. A few peak summer rates run higher than~ $0.42 - $0.45, but most users will pay about that much, and only then for use at summer peak. Most T.O.U. rates for the rest of the 90+ % of the hours of the year not on peak summer hour rate be something like 2/3 that peak rate.
The SDG & E summer on peak rate for users with PV is $0.51195/kWh.
If I was on T.O.U without a PV system, my average annual cost/kWh would be ~ ~ $0.303/kWh.

BTW, how do you cost the maint. for the generator ?

[solardreamer]

Yesterday I hooked the 250 volts coming from my Prius to a Tesla powerwall inverter at the solar panel input. The inverter was exporting 6000w from the Prius to the grid. It worked for about 4 minutes and then inverter said arc fault and shut down. I tried miscellaneous testing off grid like I could run things like a resistive cooktop. But the arc fault error would show up randomly. The software in the inverter clearly is not handling the DC power from the Prius very well and it was too annoying to consider as a viable option. Wile it works though it works pretty nice. It takes the power from the Prius and converts it directly to ac 240 volts. This inverter does not need a battery to stabilize its AC output , with a slight work around it takes solar in and throws AC out completely off grid. I was hoping this could be the kind of inverter you put in the trunk to take with you camping or something but it's just too irritating having to clear the arc fault error all the time!

What's the AC wiring? Is the inverter tied to ground? With neutral/ground bonding?

[travissand]

What's the AC wiring? Is the inverter tied to ground? With neutral/ground bonding?

I think the shell of the inverter is tied to the ground in the AC panel. It works fine when using the solar panels to export to the grid. They're more like 360 volts though compared to the average 230 volts of the Prius.

[travissand]

So, your calculated price/kWh comes out to ~ ~ $0.64.
That may be fine for emergency power, and maybe folks around you are paying nearly the same amount/kWh, but I'd like to see some numbers backing up your claim.
Some of the highest electricity rates in the U.S. are in CA.
There may be some locations where a per kWh rate may be higher than your $0.64/kWh, but they are not common. I've found one: Tiered rates for the 400+ % over baseline for SDG & E sch. DR and that rate is for a closed schedule.
Most T.O.U. rates for SDG & E and SCE run ~ $0.42 - 0.45 or so per kWh for summer peak rates. A few peak summer rates run higher than~ $0.42 - $0.45, but most users will pay about that much, and only then for use at summer peak. Most T.O.U. rates for the rest of the 90+ % of the hours of the year not on peak summer hour rate be something like 2/3 that peak rate.
The SDG & E summer on peak rate for users with PV is $0.51195/kWh.
If I was on T.O.U without a PV system, my average annual cost/kWh would be ~ ~ $0.303/kWh.

BTW, how do you cost the maint. for the generator ?

what numbers would you like to see to back up my claim? The numbers of the Honda the numbers of the Prius or the numbers of the electric company?

How do I factor in maintenance? I don't. And if I did I suppose it wouldn't be too hard. But honestly I'm not going to because until I get my lithium batteries hooked up I have no other choice except for more expensive choices. Maintaining the Prius is easy compared to other cars. I've been a mechanic for decades. Besides I drive it every day and so I'm already maintaining it naturally.

[SunEagle]

what numbers would you like to see to back up my claim? The numbers of the Honda the numbers of the Prius or the numbers of the electric company?

How do I factor in maintenance? I don't. And if I did I suppose it wouldn't be too hard. But honestly I'm not going to because until I get my lithium batteries hooked up I have no other choice except for more expensive choices. Maintaining the Prius is easy compared to other cars. I've been a mechanic for decades. Besides I drive it every day and so I'm already maintaining it naturally.

I guess the big question is what is your standard cost per kWh. Here in the US the average is down around $0.12/kWh with peaks in CA, HI and the Northeast that can go as high as $0.50/kWh.

So that $0.64/kWh may be good for you, it is certainly a lot more than all of the US cost per kWh charged by the POCO.

[J.P.M.]

what numbers would you like to see to back up my claim?

The numbers that show "So many people here on the grid paying nearly the same amount per kwh." I take that to mean a lot of folks around you pay ~ $0.64/kWh under about the same conditions, times and amounts of use as when you are using the self generation you describe.

I live in a place with some of the highest electricity rates in the U.S. and I and most of my neighbors have a per kWh/price that's about half the $0.64/kWh or less. Even most every peak time T.O.U. rate is less than that. There may be some I've not seen yet, but I've only found one that's close to $0.64/kW and that's for a super user surcharge rate (> 400 % of baseline) for a schedule that's closed o new users (SDG & E, schedule DR).

[solardreamer]

I think the shell of the inverter is tied to the ground in the AC panel. It works fine when using the solar panels to export to the grid. They're more like 360 volts though compared to the average 230 volts of the Prius.

Working fine with solar panels does not necessarily mean there is no AC wiring issues. Nuisance arc faults in AFCI breakers are often caused by AC wiring issues so you could have similar issues. Strong electrical noise may be another possibility.

[travissand]

Working fine with solar panels does not necessarily mean there is no AC wiring issues. Nuisance arc faults in AFCI breakers are often caused by AC wiring issues so you could have similar issues. Strong electrical noise may be another possibility.

To rule that out I disconnected it from the grid completely with the same results.

[travissand]

Working fine with solar panels does not necessarily mean there is no AC wiring issues. Nuisance arc faults in AFCI breakers are often caused by AC wiring issues so you could have similar issues. Strong electrical noise may be another possibility.

I live in a place with some of the highest electricity rates in the U.S. and I and most of my neighbors have a per kWh/price that's about half the $0.64/kWh or less. Even most every peak time T.O.U. rate is less than that. There may be some I've not seen yet, but I've only found one that's close to $0.64/kW and that's for a super user surcharge rate (> 400 % of baseline) for a schedule that's closed o new users (SDG & E, schedule DR).[/QUOTE]

I live in the state known for the highest in the country. I also live in the city known for the highest in the state. My electric bill is cost per kilowatt-hour, no time of use complications happen in my city. It's just cost per kilowatt-hour plus the monthly fee or whatever I'm not quite sure how they calculate but it comes out to over $0.60 a kilowatt hour for me. My Hilo electric bill.jpg

[J.P.M.]

I live in a place with some of the highest electricity rates in the U.S. and I and most of my neighbors have a per kWh/price that's about half the $0.64/kWh or less. Even most every peak time T.O.U. rate is less than that. There may be some I've not seen yet, but I've only found one that's close to $0.64/kW and that's for a super user surcharge rate (> 400 % of baseline) for a schedule that's closed o new users (SDG & E, schedule DR).

I live in the state known for the highest in the country. I also live in the city known for the highest in the state. My electric bill is cost per kilowatt-hour, no time of use complications happen in my city. It's just cost per kilowatt-hour plus the monthly fee or whatever I'm not quite sure how they calculate but it comes out to over $0.60 a kilowatt hour for me. My Hilo electric bill.jpg[/QUOTE]

I appreciate the HI situation but it's a one off with pricing forces not applicable to the rest of the U.S.
I was waiting for someone from HI to chime in.
Everything costs more in HI.
That's the price of living in paradise, but it's paradise, not the rest of the U.S., and an anomaly with respect to reasons why stuff, including electricity costs so much relative to mainland U.S. retail residential electricity prices.

[Ampster]

I live in the state known for the highest in the country. I also live in the city known for the highest in the state. My electric bill is cost per kilowatt-hour, no time of use complications happen in my city.

My brother owns a rental house on Maui. He said with those rates it made sense to install a Powerwall in conjunction with his solar install.