Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Full size storage container for permanent install of solar/battery equipment.

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Full size storage container for permanent install of solar/battery equipment.

    Hey folks. Looking for someone to poke holes in this idea.

    In the planning stages of building a new off grid home in a California burn scar. Utility drop would be unbelievably expensive or we would have gone that route. Having seen what happens to FLA batteries after a fire we would strongly prefer to again keep batteries separate from the home. There is available space to either build a power shed that we would have to build to code that houses equipment to power the home, and possibly an RV pad... or to simply drop a full size shipping container down to hold this equipment. The container would hold the FLA batteries, charge controllers and inverters. This isn't a temporary install, and would need to be code compliant. A shipping container on site isn't a huge issue from an aesthetics standpoint. Issues I could possibly see are yearly below freezing and the 100+ temps that the area sees, so a battery box may need to be built out with both ventilation and insulation. I've dug into 690/705 and haven't really seen any code issues in the NEC for landing batteries into a container like this. Would also allow the generator to be landed next to the container, and create enough separation you wouldn't hear much from the house under use. Realistically it's a weekend/extended vacation home, not a full time residence.

    So what say the forum? Is this a pipe dream, or something that's actually possible? Seems like a 4-5000 container may be superior in this case to a 20,000 full structure as long as code compliance wouldn't be an issue. Just to be clear, the actual PV would be a traditional ground mount... the container would not be used as a structure for modules.
    Last edited by Whalepod; 12-13-2018, 04:51 AM.

  • #2
    I feel like you could stick frame a small shed cheaper than buying a container, but honestly have never looked at prices. That said, I'm assuming you are talking a 20ft container and not a 40ft.

    Typically buying enough batteries and solar to run off grid isn't going to be cheaper than getting utility power, unless you are several miles from the nearest line.

    As far as code goes, you are going to need to make sure the container is grounded properly. That will likely mean 2 ground rods, and a welded connection to the container frame.

    Comment


    • #3
      Have you investigated or realistically estimated the size of your energy needs and loads ?

      Have you investigated the realistic costs, including battery replacement and disposal costs, and maintenance requirements of the energy storage required to meet those loads ?

      You may find that in terms of both toil and treasure costs of off grid are quite a bit more than you may have thought.

      I'd start with a generator and see how it goes for a yr. or two and keep records of usage before I committed to anything more costly and permanent.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Whalepod View Post
        Hey folks. Looking for someone to poke holes in this idea.

        In the planning stages of building a new off grid home in a California burn scar. Utility drop would be unbelievably expensive or we would have gone that route. Having seen what happens to FLA batteries after a fire we would strongly prefer to again keep batteries separate from the home. There is available space to either build a power shed that we would have to build to code that houses equipment to power the home, and possibly an RV pad... or to simply drop a full size shipping container down to hold this equipment. The container would hold the FLA batteries, charge controllers and inverters. This isn't a temporary install, and would need to be code compliant. A shipping container on site isn't a huge issue from an aesthetics standpoint. Issues I could possibly see are yearly below freezing and the 100+ temps that the area sees, so a battery box may need to be built out with both ventilation and insulation. I've dug into 690/705 and haven't really seen any code issues in the NEC for landing batteries into a container like this. Would also allow the generator to be landed next to the container, and create enough separation you wouldn't hear much from the house under use. Realistically it's a weekend/extended vacation home, not a full time residence.

        So what say the forum? Is this a pipe dream, or something that's actually possible? Seems like a 4-5000 container may be superior in this case to a 20,000 full structure as long as code compliance wouldn't be an issue. Just to be clear, the actual PV would be a traditional ground mount... the container would not be used as a structure for modules.
        You would be way better off buying a premanufactured shed from Lowes or HD. You'll kill FLA batteries quick in the heat of a metal box, electronics aren't fond of heat either and you won't be able to afford to run a fan all the time give that it consumes the same power you desire. You said it was a burn location so I'm making the assumption that you desire to place batteries into a solar oven.?
        1150W, Midnite Classic 200, Cotek PSW, 8 T-605s

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by emartin00 View Post

          Typically buying enough batteries and solar to run off grid isn't going to be cheaper than getting utility power, unless you are several miles from the nearest line.

          As far as code goes, you are going to need to make sure the container is grounded properly. That will likely mean 2 ground rods, and a welded connection to the container frame.
          Yeah... the last time a new drop was quoted by the utility it was 200k+. Closest existing property with a service drop is several miles of relatively rugged terrain (for the area) away. The argument about increased property value with electrical service isn't lost on me, but neither is the unbelievable up front cost... and the fact the utility caused the fire that burned down the home in the first place.

          The previous home on the property was supported by a 4kW DC array + 48v battery bank before the fire. The FLA's were stored in a garage about 200ft from the previous homes Main Service panel, after the fire the clean up crew needed to roll up in hazmat suits to clean the previous FLA's, and having been on site before the crew arrived really turned me off to batteries in general. Funny enough the only thing to survive the fire was the previous array, which is still sitting there like a champ, powering nothing. This new house should be a little more energy efficient, and I'll have an estimated load list that I can start working with Load Calcs and battery sizing relatively soon. Watering batteries doesn't really bother me short term, but I do like the energy density and lower routine maintenance of Lithium Ion, and the setup will be also be supported by a generator.

          Just spit balling ideas brought up by the home owner. I work in residential solar, I just don't get a chance to work or design off grid on a regular basis. My 2 biggest issues at this point are realistic energy usage estimates since this will be a brand new structure, and where/how to house batteries since we are working from a relatively clean slate. I'm clearly open to suggestions here!

          Comment


          • #6
            Unless you have ground water issues, put them in and underground enclosure. Either form one up and pour it or buy a septic tank and then build s set of bulkhead type doors to access it. Ideally water proof the outside of a poured enclosure by using plastic inside the forms and letting the concrete cure for about 60 days, they coat it with coal tar epoxy on the inside, If you buy a septic tank just coat it with coal tar on both the outside and the inside. Now build a set of insulated bulkhead type doors and make a rigging gantry and you should be good to go. Ground temps are a lot more stable than air temps and if you build the bulkhead doors out of fire resistant materials it is going to survive a fire.

            Comment


            • #7
              I am in the process of doing the same thing minus batteries (grid tied). I am installing the panels on top of a 40ft container. I needed the container anyways (I have 2) for storage, so mounting the panels on top of one of the containers made sense. I am planning to hang the inverter on the outside of the container, not inside. If I hang it on the north side it won't get direct sun and still plenty of airflow to cool down. In winter it might get a little snow on it but that shouldn't hurt anything. Putting it inside a container in summer might be too toasty however I've had inverters sit inside my home inside a garage in Phoenix AZ, with uninsulated garage doors facing south and having hot cars parked inside at night. It got HOT in there and the inverter kept on chugging. No issues.
              I am working on a mount right now to have the panels hang over the top side. It's facing perfectly south. They will be adjustable so snow load will be less of an issue in winter when they are close to vertical. One of the thing to keep in mind is the container could 'sweat' on the inside. I might insulate the roof from the inside. I've heard if snow loads on top and the weather heats up it could get some condensation. It's dry here (high desert) so might not even happen.
              Containers are a very solid structure. Just make sure they are level (concrete footers) and stay level. Other than that, they will last you many many years, depending on their condition. Mine was refurbed and will last a long time.

              Comment

              Working...
              X