Comments Please!

[nomadros]

If I live in a museum, I probably don't expect I'll be able to remodel at my whim.

Forgetting the fact that the land and house got museum-ed without any notification, the hard part is getting everyone to recognise I now live in museums and getting assorted groups of pencil pushers to look outside their individual mental silos. Anyway for the land, I've now got excellent and professional relationships with all "stakeholders" and what I want is actually about 95% the same as what they want, I don't get "inspected" every 3 months now, everyone that needs keys has keys and my clearing the land (with permit) now ties in with the fire plan clear zone, so if anyone gets trapped by snow or fire they can be helicoptered out. For the house, I've still got problems, funnily enough mostly to do with solar panels. 2 years ago: illegal, this year: mandatory. Next year, they'll probaly be illegal again when someone realises that they didn't have solar panels in the 14th century.

[nomadros]

nomadros,
I would have thought that your 40 amp MPPT controller would have no problems to cope with your 800 watts of panels. Connect two pairs of two for 24 volts;
800 watts / 12 = 66.67 amps = too much
800 watts / 24 = 33.33 amps = not too much
The controller will convert the 24v into 12v to charge the battery bank It will also jump up the amps;.
Example, readings on my charge controller 40 amp MPPT.

snip.

Many thanks for the info RH-46. I'm going to really read and take on board those calcs. My GF flies in on Saturday to help with the mounting structure (4m long, hung off a random rubble wall so is a bit difficult for 1 person to align everything), so hopefully by Monday we'll be in a position to start connecting stuff. My current "system" is 18cm x 12cm panel and an LED security light so anything bigger is an "up". If I can get a few hours a day work done on a laptop when it's dark, I'll be happy. The TV is more for the weather forecast and learning Spanish and Catala. I'll also be using a mobile repeater to connect to the internet and for comms so I can get alarms from the weather app I use and alerts from the forest rangers and fire brigade. The "castle" is a traditional Catalan design whose materials and shape are the result of a collaboration between the local council, the architect, the forest rangers, the fire dept and the dept of agriculture. I had no say in it, I just wanted 4 walls and a roof. Anyway, again many thanks, which is truly appreciated.

[Robinhood-46]

nomadros,
I would have thought that your 40 amp MPPT controller would have no problems to cope with your 800 watts of panels. Connect two pairs of two for 24 volts;
800 watts / 12 = 66.67 amps = too much
800 watts / 24 = 33.33 amps = not too much
The controller will convert the 24v into 12v to charge the battery bank It will also jump up the amps;.
Example, readings on my charge controller 40 amp MPPT.

Panel output _______________ battery

volts = 40.2 v _______________14.6 volts
current = 3.8________________ amps 8.9 amps
power = 151.1 watts

the panels power is permenantly fluctuating, so by the time I scroll through controller parameters to find battery, the panel output will have changed therefore these figures are not representative of the controllers efficiency. I have given them just to help you understand how your controller works when you connect it on 24 v with the panels that you have allready bought.
Normally when/ IF the panels give the 800 watts, your controller is more than capable of accepting at 24 volts. However, after conversion to 12v for charging the battery you will be well over the 40 amps max of the controller. You must check to see how your controller copes with this scenario. My controller charges the battery bank at 40 amps and the rest is wasted electricity. Although the manuel states that this is ok I do try to avoid it. I'm sure that somebody here will be able to clarify if there is a risk of premature wear or not?
In real life situation the charge voltage will be 13.6 to 14.8 volts when panels on full power so max amps are acyually 800 / 13.6 = 58.8 and not 66.67
The maximum panel wattage is 1.5 times the rated panel wattage therefore 780 watts at 12v and 1,560 at 24.
You will be able to check these ratings on the internet if you do not have a manuel for your model of controller.
Good luck with your installation, you will be able to watch the telly in your castle and be a very happy man just don't count on doing it every day.
The most important thing when going of grid when small scale is to understand the difference between what you need and what you want. When your needs are reel needs they can easily be supplied. When the state of charge (SOC) of your battery bank allows you to have some wants thats when you can spend hours on the computer or infront of the telly, electric toaster/kettle instead of the gas,hifi system and power tools.

[J.P.M.]

Lol...The only thing I've learned is... having employed a registered local architect (obligatory) who produced a project which can be weighed in kilos (many lbs in American) and employed a registered local builder (obligatory) to do the work and having got a nature reserve permit (obligatory, criminal offence without one in a Zona Protegida Natural) to carry out the works and not being able to touch or comment on anything ...that it is my fault when it all goes tits up. I wouldn't mind, but I'm qualified and experienced in designing and constructing buildings and can spot a lemon a mile off. Oh, I'm also a qualified and experienced Solutions Architect in case anyone thinks I'm changing my story.

Yesterday, I got a permit to rebuild my house (I had to buy a Catalan legal address to get a Certificat de Empadronament, which is another long story) which is in Zona Protegida Cultural. This is because the building next door got knocked together in 1365, which is about 130 years before Columbus found America, and is therefore seemingly important.

The moral of this sorry tale is never let your girlfirend near the internet if she has a large amount of cash and a desire to spend it. The result being, the boyfriend spends 3.5 years in a tent sorting out the mess created.

Back on topic: Still waitng on a permit to stick those solar panels I bought to my shed though!

Sounds a bit like a case of you reaping the benefits of most everyone's tendency toward anarchy and irresponsible self interest and gov. attempt at reigning that in for the common good. From your earlier recounting of what reads like a ready-shoot-aim approach to PV and (NOMB) life, it looks, to me only perhaps, you may need some protection from those tendencies. As for bureaucracy, welcome to a pluralistic society. If I live in a museum, I probably don't expect I'll be able to remodel at my whim.

[nomadros]

Understood. Been there. But I've found such folks usually know more about what I'm needing to accomplish than I do, which means I can learn from them. So, I listen, think and try to learn more than I fight with such folks. Just sayin'.

Lol...The only thing I've learned is... having employed a registered local architect (obligatory) who produced a project which can be weighed in kilos (many lbs in American) and employed a registered local builder (obligatory) to do the work and having got a nature reserve permit (obligatory, criminal offence without one in a Zona Protegida Natural) to carry out the works and not being able to touch or comment on anything ...that it is my fault when it all goes tits up. I wouldn't mind, but I'm qualified and experienced in designing and constructing buildings and can spot a lemon a mile off. Oh, I'm also a qualified and experienced Solutions Architect in case anyone thinks I'm changing my story.

Yesterday, I got a permit to rebuild my house (I had to buy a Catalan legal address to get a Certificat de Empadronament, which is another long story) which is in Zona Protegida Cultural. This is because the building next door got knocked together in 1365, which is about 130 years before Columbus found America, and is therefore seemingly important.

The moral of this sorry tale is never let your girlfirend near the internet if she has a large amount of cash and a desire to spend it. The result being, the boyfriend spends 3.5 years in a tent sorting out the mess created.

Back on topic: Still waitng on a permit to stick those solar panels I bought to my shed though!

[J.P.M.]

Short of having tracks, this is the lowest centre of gravity, hill tractor that I could find. 4 wheels the same size and reversible so I can turn the seat and steering wheel around and it's unbalanced without an attachment. Antonio Carraro TRG 9400 if you're interested. I really wanted a Carraro Mach 4, but couldn't justify the cost and it's a bit Mad Max for parking outside the bar.

According to the manual (which I read) my tractor will go along a 38 degree lateral slope, however my bollox aren't the size to take on that sort of nonsense. Anyhoo, off topic and this week I am mostly fighting builders and architects instead of working. Seems these days, everyone is an expert with much paperwork, except when it goes bang, when they all run away and hide. I have used the word "lawyer" to coax them into open ground.

Understood. Been there. But I've found such folks usually know more about what I'm needing to accomplish than I do, which means I can learn from them. So, I listen, think and try to learn more than I fight with such folks. Just sayin'.

[nomadros]

....were the consequence of not being prepared, and that if I was going to operate stuff, read up first.

What goes around, comes around.

Short of having tracks, this is the lowest centre of gravity, hill tractor that I could find. 4 wheels the same size and reversible so I can turn the seat and steering wheel around and it's unbalanced without an attachment. Antonio Carraro TRG 9400 if you're interested. I really wanted a Carraro Mach 4, but couldn't justify the cost and it's a bit Mad Max for parking outside the bar.

According to the manual (which I read) my tractor will go along a 38 degree lateral slope, however my bollox aren't the size to take on that sort of nonsense. Anyhoo, off topic and this week I am mostly fighting builders and architects instead of working. Seems these days, everyone is an expert with much paperwork, except when it goes bang, when they all run away and hide. I have used the word "lawyer" to coax them into open ground.

[J.P.M.]

JPM: next week I shall mostly be trying not to tip my tractor over.

When I was a kid, I spent most summers and a lot of time on my grandparent's farm. When I was 8 yrs. old or so, I actually tipped over the tractor while operating it on the sly and trying to do a wheelie. Not hurt too badly, but I got no sympathy and into some hot water. My grandmother gave me the tractor manual such as it was back in the day and told me the injuries I got - a broken wrist & some bruises - were the consequence of not being prepared, and that if I was going to operate stuff, read up first.

What goes around, comes around.

[nomadros]

Thanks all for the advice.
SunKing: at least I'll have spares!
JPM: next week I shall mostly be trying not to tip my tractor over.
Note to self: Must get skills.

[Sunking]

Well, I bought 4 no 12V 200W talesun polycrystalline panels, a 1000w 12V MPPT 40A combined inverter/charger, a 230Ah GEL battery, wall mounting structure for the panels and various cables. and connectors.

Now you have compounded your mistakes on top of using Gel Batteries. A 40 amp MPPT Controller can only input 500 watts, you just as well toss one or two panels away. 800 watts into 12 volt battery requires a minimum 60 amp controller.

[J.P.M.]

JPM, I've spent the last 3 and a half years living in a tent without heat or light. I nearly got killed last winter when one night the snow weight collapsed the thing. This winter, I have 4 walls and a roof, a fireplace and will have light and power. All the stuff is under a 2 year warranty anyway. I'll hopefully get permission soon for the large building I need which will have a quite big solar installation so I need to learn this stuff. I'm treating this install as a test to give me an idea of strengths and weaknesses and buy me some time to source parts I really want. For example CanBat seems to get good reviews, but can't find a reseller here. I'm a software developer learning to farm on mountainous terrain and way off grid, so everything from tractors, quad bikes, communications, irrigation, bee keeping, poultry keeping, designing harvest equipment which is cheap, to chainsaws and clearing saws I'm learning as I go, along with the 2 languages I need to speak here. I'm operating on a "research, buy, try, iterate, move on" system in order to chomp through all this. This winter when the weather goes bad, if I can sit in front of a fire with the TV on or doing some coding, I'll be in heaven.

Life's a bitch huh ? NOMB, but how much of all the perils you describe were due to choices you made ?

And, not a knock, but it seems you've changed equipment ideas a fair amount in the last 3+ weeks since your 10/09 post. Makes me wonder if you'd be better off with more education/research before you buy stuff. So, I'd endorse your idea of learning stuff, but I'd do the early stages of the learning via reading/study before buying and assembly. Just sayin'.

[nomadros]

JPM, I've spent the last 3 and a half years living in a tent without heat or light. I nearly got killed last winter when one night the snow weight collapsed the thing. This winter, I have 4 walls and a roof, a fireplace and will have light and power. All the stuff is under a 2 year warranty anyway. I'll hopefully get permission soon for the large building I need which will have a quite big solar installation so I need to learn this stuff. I'm treating this install as a test to give me an idea of strengths and weaknesses and buy me some time to source parts I really want. For example CanBat seems to get good reviews, but can't find a reseller here. I'm a software developer learning to farm on mountainous terrain and way off grid, so everything from tractors, quad bikes, communications, irrigation, bee keeping, poultry keeping, designing harvest equipment which is cheap, to chainsaws and clearing saws I'm learning as I go, along with the 2 languages I need to speak here. I'm operating on a "research, buy, try, iterate, move on" system in order to chomp through all this. This winter when the weather goes bad, if I can sit in front of a fire with the TV on or doing some coding, I'll be in heaven.

[J.P.M.]

Well, I bought 4 no 12V 200W talesun polycrystalline panels, a 1000w 12V MPPT 40A combined inverter/charger, a 230Ah GEL battery, wall mounting structure for the panels and various cables. and connectors. Awaiting delivery. The inverter/charger and the battery don't get very good reviews but I can only buy what's available here, so I did. I figure the only way to get the hang of this stuff is to get your hands dirty, start at the bottom and take problems as part of the earning curve. I'll post a pic when it's all mounted and/or on fire. Thanks littleHarbor for the help.

Fortune favors the bold (but slaughters the foolish). If the reviews where not that good, but that's the only equipment, one likely option would be to forego buying the poorly reviewed equipment.

You can't always get what you want.

[nomadros]

Well, I bought 4 no 12V 200W talesun polycrystalline panels, a 1000w 12V MPPT 40A combined inverter/charger, a 230Ah GEL battery, wall mounting structure for the panels and various cables. and connectors. Awaiting delivery. The inverter/charger and the battery don't get very good reviews but I can only buy what's available here, so I did. I figure the only way to get the hang of this stuff is to get your hands dirty, start at the bottom and take problems as part of the earning curve. I'll post a pic when it's all mounted and/or on fire. Thanks littleHarbor for the help.

[nomadros]

Thanks littleHarbor....blimey, this is difficult. Trying to get a low wattage 24v inverter is like trying to buy a pentium p60 chip in 2018, so (and I hope you're all sitting down with a large whisky) I've decided to rip it up and start again...at 12V. Yes, I know, the sheer horror.

So....
Batteries: TBD probably 2no. TROJAN TE35-GEL 210Ah 6V
Inverter/charger: Must 1000w 12v, charge regulator 50A PWM, charge current to batteries 20A
Panels: 4no. 200W 12v (72 cells (6x12)) polycrystalline

Is this acceptable?

I'm now away to find a cellphone repeater which is kind of like walking into Dodge City with your pants around your ankles and your gun at the repair shop.