pile of parts

[TheGuyFromNJ]

Some direction please....
So currently I have a small setup on my garage, 2 x 100w renogy panels in parallel , 9 x 116Ah batteries in parallel(all 2 years old now), a cheap 30a PWM controller, and a Dimensions 12/1800n 12v 1800w pure sine inverter. The panels are about 12ft from the batteries. (most of this was bartered for)
This setup works fine for me during the summer, with more sun and longer daylight. Im not in my garage every night but when I am, Im using saws, lights, air compressors etc. and the batteries just arent charging fast enough.

So in an attempt to shorten my charging time I bartered for 5 x Canadian solar 220w panels which arent on the roof yet. I know I will need a new controller, any suggestions which one is best for my application?

Everywhere I read says that running in 12v/80A is a huge waste, but what are the options when running with a 12v inverter?

[littleharbor]

At present you have , at best, 13 amps charging a 1044 amp battery bank. This is akin to a trickle charger that will never fully charge that size battery. Even 100 amps is less than 10% of your battery bank. 100 amps would be sufficient for your bank but you really need to scrap your entire setup and set up a properly designed system or you are going to continually be spending money on batteries.

Next, your 2 year old batteries are most likely shot being they are in this parallel configuration and being charged by said 13 amps. The batteries on the ends of the bank want more than 13 amps to properly charge. every battery between those two are receiving very little of the charge, are chronically undercharging. Considering the cost of replacing batteries prematurely, you should bite the bullet and buy a decent 24 volt inverter and when you replace your abused battery bank buy 6volt (or 4volt or 2 volt) deep cycle batteries and set up a proper battery bank.

[Sunking]

Everywhere I read says that running in 12v/80A is a huge waste, but what are the options when running with a 12v inverter?[/I]

At least you got the title right; A Pile of .....

12 volt Inverters are toys and dangerous. Anything larger than 400 to 500 watts is a move to 24 or 48 volts. Additionally it appears you are stuck in a 12 volt box. Worse thing you can do is parallel batteries. Couple that with gross undercharging you have 9 worthless batteries.

Just to charge the batteries you have right now, which are on life support, would take 1300 watts and that is on the LOW side. Now here is the problem using 12 volts. At 1300 watts means you need 2 very expensive 50-Amp Charge controllers. Forget PWM.

Your 12 volt @ 1044 AH battery equals a 24 volt @ 544 AH, or 48 Volt @ 272 Amps. What this means is with a MPPT Controller on a 24 volt battery means you need 1 50 amp controller, or at 48 volts a 25 amp controller. Both using 1300 watts input.

So why are you looking at 12 volts requiring 2 very expensive 50 amp controllers? You have a huge pile of junk. Your batteries are toast. You need to be using either 6 or 4 volt batteries of the proper AH capacity. Example using 8 Trojan T-105 batteries is a 6-volt 225 AH battery that will last 3 to 5 years with TLC. Wired in series gives you 48 volts @ 225 AH (equal to 12 volts @ 900 AH). Minimum panel wattage required is 1000 watts with a 25-Amp MPPT controller and a 48 volt 1000 watt Inverter.

FORGET PWM.

[SunEagle]

Hello TheGuyFromNJ and welcome to Solar Panel Talk

Unfortunately those 100 watt panels are only good for small portable systems. I would not even think about using them for your large power needs.

Next, having a battery bank with more than 2 "batteries" wired in parallel is a sure fire way to kill the entire bank due to uneven charging/discharging.

Next, a good rule of thumb requires the charging amps to be at least 1/10th the Ah rating of your battery system. A battery will sulfate and die if you go with less than 1/12th the Ah rating.

Finally, if you need a lot of power from your batteries then go with at least a 24v system or even better a 48volt system composed of low voltage batteries (2v, 4v, 6v) rated at the Ah required and all wired in series without any in parallel.

Based on that information and what Sunking and littleharbor have posted will get you close to a quality solar / battery system.

[TheGuyFromNJ]

Ok thanks for all the input. I do appreciate your time.

so let's say I'm ready to get out of the 12v box. Can we make lemonade from some of what I have?

I currently have 5-220w panels
I can barter for new 116Ah 12v batteries, only because they are nearly free and not worried about saving space

so I need a 45-50A mppt CC, and a 2000w 24v inverter

considering a shoestring budget do you have any suggestions for either?

[SunEagle]

Ok thanks for all the input. I do appreciate your time.

so let's say I'm ready to get out of the 12v box. Can we make lemonade from some of what I have?

I currently have 5-220w panels
I can barter for new 116Ah 12v batteries, only because they are nearly free and not worried about saving space

so I need a 45-50A mppt CC, and a 2000w 24v inverter

considering a shoestring budget do you have any suggestions for either?

I would look into a 60Amp MPPT CC like the Outback FM 60 or maybe the Morningstar TS-MPPT 60.

As for an inverter, the better ones are the pure sine wave type. A couple of manufacturers that I am familiar with are Samlex or Xantrex, but there might be better ones out there.

[TheGuyFromNJ]

I would look into a 60Amp MPPT CC like the Outback FM 60 or maybe the Morningstar TS-MPPT 60.

As for an inverter, the better ones are the pure sine wave type. A couple of manufacturers that I am familiar with are Samlex or Xantrex, but there might be better ones out there.

ok thx, but I think our shoestrings are different sizes, lol

[littleharbor]

ok thx, but I think our shoestrings are different sizes, lol

There are lots of cheaper "imported" controllers and inverters out there. look on ebay. It's just hard to recommend any due to questionable quality. They may work fine for you, then again maybe not.

[Mike90250]

First, let's figure out what your loads are? Saws? HiFi? computer ?

Take a wild guess at re-doing solar and take a wild guess at running power to the garage? Solar is always going to have batteries needing replacement every 3-6 years. balance that cost, to the cost of trench and power wires. ?

Committed to solar? First, we are being honest, it's going to cost, we are not selling gear, (we can refer you and suggest)
Second, I'd suggest a 48V system made up from 8 cheap 6V 200ah golf cart batteries. about $1,000 for the batch, Then you need only 20 or 30A of charge controller, but still over 1,000 w of functional PV panels. And racks/mounts to put them on, Here's a 1Kw setup in my backyard: (electronics mounted on back of the green plywood)
20160811_122147rot.jpg

[SunEagle]

ok thx, but I think our shoestrings are different sizes, lol

I hear ya. Unfortunately most people do not understand that a solar / battery system is not cheap and will never fit into anyone's "shoestring" budgets.

[Sunking]

OK forst there are very few real MPPT Controllers out there. Price is a dead give away. A good 15 amp MPPT controller will cost $200. Names to look for are Midnite Solar, Morningstar, and Outback. A good 40 amp model will cost you $400 and 80 amp model will cost you $600.

To determine what size you need is super simple. Amps = Panel Wattage / Battery voltage. Example 1500 watts / 24 volts = 62.5 amps so you shop for a 65 amp or larger controller.

Minimum battery size is 10 times the charge current. So using the above example 62.5 amps is going to be at least 625 AH at 24 volts. At that much capacity you are looking at using 4 or 6 volt batteries. Get out of that 12 volt box you are trapped in. Lead Acid Batteries are 2 volts, not 12.

[karrak]

The 40A EPSolar Tracer A MPPT solar controller might be worth looking at, It also goes under the name Epever and QVT??? I have installed an etracer MPPT controller on a friends system about three and a half years ago and it is still operating OK. You could buy one and hook it up to all your new panels and see if it provides you with enough power. If it doesn't you could buy a second one. These units are 12 and 24 volts so you could always change to 24V in the future.

Here is some good information on wiring batteries up correctly in parallel, http://www.smartgauge.co.uk/batt_con.html I use method 2.

Simon

[Sunking]

The 40A EPSolar Tracer A MPPT solar controller might be worth looking at, It also goes under the name Epever and QVT??? I have installed an etracer MPPT controller on a friends system about three and a half years ago and it is still operating OK. You could buy one and hook it up to all your new panels and see if it provides you with enough power. If it doesn't you could buy a second one. These units are 12 and 24 volts so you could always change to 24V in the future.

Here is some good information on wiring batteries up correctly in parallel, http://www.smartgauge.co.uk/batt_con.html I use method 2.

Simon

More bad advice from Simon

Edited a bit out.

[karrak]

More bad advice from Simon

More details please

[TheGuyFromNJ]

Maybe I'm thinking too big....

my biggest load is my compressor, 20 (startup amps)for maybe 20-30 minutes a week, my 6 ac lights are 192w total 8-10 hours/week, there is a time when both are used at the same time.
Maybe I don't need such a big system. How much battery do I need to start a 20a compressor?

I apologize in advance if it seems like I am trying to beat a dead horse.