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Any inverter-generators that allow their inverters to draw from batteries?

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  • Any inverter-generators that allow their inverters to draw from batteries?

    Hi, I just have a simple question. Are there any inveter-generators that can do both....

    1. Run on Fossil Fuels to charge a battery bank.
    2. Engine off, but the internal inverter can still be used to convert to AC power by drawing off my battery bank.


    My understanding is that the generator produces multiphase ac power which is then converted to dc, which is then converted to single phase ac by a second inverter. Can that second inverter be hooked to a battery bank as its power source when the engine is off. I suppose it would be important to know what the second inverter's DC voltage input is.

    I haven't bought a generator yet, I just want to know if there are any out there, that this could work on. Thanks.

  • #2
    Originally posted by ABruso View Post
    1. Run on Fossil Fuels to charge a battery bank.
    2. Engine off, but the internal inverter can still be used to convert to AC power by drawing off my battery bank.
    Not that I've seen; it would be expensive/complex to add to a generator, and you would be likely to fry your batteries. Fortunately other inverters that can do this are relatively cheap and easy to use.

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    • #3
      Don't buy anything yet because you do not understand how any of it works.

      All gas engines use some sort of fuel to burn like peanut oil to gasoline. Makes no difference what the fuel is. The engine turns a generator or alternator. If it is a Generator then you need to use it to power a battery charger. Battery Charger is connected to Batteries which is connected to an Inverter which produces AC power. The Inverter is a dumb device. As long as it is turned on and has DC power, does not care or know if the generator is running or not. All the Inverter needs is DC power.

      If the engine turns an alternator, the Alternator just like your car charges the battery. Battery is connected to the Inverter which produces AC Power. The Inverter is a dumb device. As long as it is turned on and has DC power, does not care or know if the alternator is running or not. Exactly how every car works.

      It makes no difference if the Generator is Poly or Single Phase. They work exactly the same. You match the generator to the your load. If you have a load that is Single Phase, you use a Single Phase generator. Not rocket science. Many large Generators can do both Poly and Single Phase depending on where you land you load connections on th egenerator by someone who knows what they are doing.

      OK they do make Inverters with Generator Support for Off-Grid users. Very simple device with basically 3 Ports, and control circuit, and built-in battery charger. One port is for your AC equipment loads be it Single or Poly Phase FWIW any consumer unit is going to be Single Phase, Poly Phase is for large commercial or industrial users. Second Port for the Battery, and Third port for the Generator. Nothing like you thought. They have a built in battery monitor. When the battery gets low, it starts the generator and runs until the batteries are charged and shuts down the generator. If the batteries get to low for whatever reason, the Inverter Shuts Off until you fix whatever the problem is.

      You can also do this the Poor Man or Trailer Park Trash way. You buy a Generator, Battery Charger, Battery, and Inverter. You connect it as follows: Generator > Battery Charger > Battery > Inverter. When the battery gets low, start the generator. When battery gets charged turn off generator. Forget to start the generator, when the battery voltage gets low, the Inverter shuts off. Keep forgetting to run the generator will destroy your battery and then you can throw the batteries and charger away and run off the generator if you can steal enough gasoline or peanut oil.
      Last edited by Sunking; 12-27-2016, 12:08 PM.
      MSEE, PE

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      • #4
        Most of the inverter generators use a >100V DC system so batteries are not likely to accompany them. I think some of the larger 7000w ones do have the capacity to draw from their starting battery for a brief surge, (read it about 3 years ago) but not when the engine was off.
        Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
        || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
        || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

        solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
        gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

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        • #5
          Enphase has their batteries and have also teamed up with a generator company. Not everything is available yet but that's the plan for Enphase

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          • #6
            Originally posted by dex View Post
            Enphase has their batteries and have also teamed up with a generator company. Not everything is available yet but that's the plan for Enphase
            Emphases makes AC batteries, and doesn't do backup.
            OutBack FP1 w/ CS6P-250P http://bit.ly/1Sg5VNH

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            • #7
              Originally posted by ButchDeal View Post

              Emphases makes AC batteries, and doesn't do backup.
              I know that is how Enphase calls their batteries but WTF is an AC battery?

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              • #8
                Originally posted by SunEagle View Post

                I know that is how Enphase calls their batteries but WTF is an AC battery?
                One that does not work and that Dan owns stock in.
                MSEE, PE

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by SunEagle View Post

                  I know that is how Enphase calls their batteries but WTF is an AC battery?
                  In the emphases situation it is a micro inverter directly attached to a battery and sealed inside a case such that you have no access to the DC.
                  OutBack FP1 w/ CS6P-250P http://bit.ly/1Sg5VNH

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ButchDeal View Post

                    In the emphases situation it is a micro inverter directly attached to a battery and sealed inside a case such that you have no access to the DC.
                    Ok. I guess to keep it simple for most people (me included) it is just easier for them to claim the package is an AC battery.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by SunEagle View Post

                      Ok. I guess to keep it simple for most people (me included) it is just easier for them to claim the package is an AC battery.
                      since the case is sealed with no serviceable way to open it without voiding the warranty, and you only have access to AC terminals....

                      ... personally I would expect a battery in relation to a solar installation to do backup. Since these do not do backup, I would refer to them as load shifting devices.
                      OutBack FP1 w/ CS6P-250P http://bit.ly/1Sg5VNH

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by ButchDeal View Post

                        since the case is sealed with no serviceable way to open it without voiding the warranty, and you only have access to AC terminals....

                        ... personally I would expect a battery in relation to a solar installation to do backup. Since these do not do backup, I would refer to them as load shifting devices.
                        Calling it a battery does make it confusing. I guess "backup power" is out of the question considering there is a micro inverter attached to each which has the anti-island safeties looking for the "grid" to operate.

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