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  • 330 Volt DC to 110 Volt AC question?

    I have a 330 Volt DC battery power supply that I want to convert to usable 110 volt AC power so that I can plug in things like a power tool or a tv.
    If the 330 Volt battery supply is a given, what do I need to step down to household 110 AC? A transformer? An inverter? I've been googling but all I've found are transformers that convert from 220 to 110. 330 seems to be kinda an oddball number to start from.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Chris4943 View Post
    I have a 330 Volt DC battery power supply that I want to convert to usable 110 volt AC power so that I can plug in things like a power tool or a tv.
    If the 330 Volt battery supply is a given, what do I need to step down to household 110 AC? A transformer? An inverter? I've been googling but all I've found are transformers that convert from 220 to 110. 330 seems to be kinda an oddball number to start from.
    You have several options.

    The most elegant is to design an inverter that will run on 330 volts DC. This is a good voltage for an inverter; peak to peak voltage for 120 volt AC is 160 volts, which means >160 volts is a good voltage to start from. However unless you are an electrical engineer with years of switchmode power design experience I would NOT recommend this.

    The most brute force approach is to use a DC to DC to get the voltage lower, then run an inverter off the resulting voltage. Here's an example:
    MeanWell SE-600-12 converter. This is a converter that will accept up to 370 volts DC and convert it down to 12 volts. Set it to 13.8 volts.
    Some 12 volt battery (doesn't have to be a good one; it's just operating as a big capacitor.)
    Morningstar Suresine 300 watt inverter. Converts 12 volts to 120 volts AC.

    Or go old school and use a motor/generator. Drive a 60Hz generator with a 330 volt DC motor. You'd get cool points for going that route.

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    • #3
      Hmm. Thanks for the reply. I'm disappointed that there is not a commercially available inverter that would Convert from 330 to 110. Stepping all the way down to 12 volts and then back up to 110 volts kinda torpedoes my (admittedly untrained/unskilled) concept.

      I’ll lay my cards on the table. I have a 2011 Ford Escape Hybrid with a wonderfully reliable 330 volt DC power source that is already being managed and charged for peak efficiency automatically by a reliable computer. And I can’t help but theorize that I’m driving around on top of a ton of potential for powering camping trips, or even powering my house (or parts of it) in the event of ‘the big one’ that may or may not be hitting SoCal at some point.

      I appreciate the options given and will not try to argue reality; I came here for a dose of it because I am ignorant in this field (though mechanically inclined and DIY spirited enough to be dangerous I guess). The first option sounds like what I need. I’m disappointed that there isn’t a commercially available one I can order off Amazon for a couple hundred bucks. I am not able to design or build an inverter safely or otherwise.

      The second option of stepping down to 12 volts DC and then back up to 110 AC sounds more realistic. I could cross out my 330 volt hybrid battery fantasy all together and simply hook an inverter up to my car’s 12 volt battery (which it also has) like many people already do. I just can’t help but wonder though how much potential I would be losing out on by bypassing the massive 330 volts. Couldn’t I power a whole house with the hybrid battery compared to the dinky 12 volt? I realize I’m outta my depth here and maybe I’m working on a false premise, but I gotta assume that going down from a massive voltage of 330 yields more usable power for longer than going up from almost nothing of 12. 330 is more than 12, I at least got that far in math.

      I’ve googled looking for anybody who's attempted utilizing the hybrid battery like this, but anybody who’s asked this same question basically gets scoffed at out of hand without any consideration. Responses only involve reasons not to do it that don’t involve whether it’s actually feasible or not. If it’s not feasible then as I said, reality on reality’s terms, I’ll accept it and buy a 12 volt inverter. But on car or diy forums people can’t seem to get past just saying to not even contemplate it because it would void the warranty or it ‘might’ be bad for the battery. Well my warranty is over and I don’t stop contemplating things and roll up shop based solely on a ‘might’.

      So... my ramblings aside, nobody sells a 330 volt inverter?



      [EDIT- The old school motor/generator option does sound cool but prohibitively unportable]
      Last edited by Chris4943; 05-26-2016, 04:57 PM.

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      • #4
        There are some people that have done this on prius which is quite similar with hacked together inverter systems.
        I would highly suggest that you stay away from it. Besides the easy damage to your car there are many ways for one to badly hurt themselves with a 330V high amp battery such as this and most of them are more than deadly.


        http://www.converdant.biz/plug-out/
        http://www.autoblog.com/2013/01/30/t...ncy-generator/
        Last edited by ButchDeal; 05-26-2016, 05:15 PM.
        OutBack FP1 w/ CS6P-250P http://bit.ly/1Sg5VNH

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        • #5
          Originally posted by ButchDeal View Post
          There are some people that have done this on prius which is quite similar with hacked together inverter systems.
          I would highly suggest that you stay away from it. Besides the easy damage to your car
          Definitely a possibility. But I keep going back to the idea that the battery is already monitored and managed to stay within a conservative range by Ford engineers. If it's depleted, the gas engine automatically kicks in and keeps it charged within a certain range. It's a thing of beauty. Potentially I could do something like try to power a rock concert and drain the battery faster than the gas engine could recharge it, but short of that kind of thing (in theory), I kinda think it'd be fine.

          there are many ways for one to badly hurt themselves with a 330V high amp battery such as this and most of them are more than deadly.
          I gotta respect this. 330 is beyond my comfort level. It's a shame but I might haveta abandon this concept simply due to being too dangerous. I hate to admit defeat due to a technicality though. I still think it's feasible and maybe even practical.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Chris4943 View Post
            Definitely a possibility. But I keep going back to the idea that the battery is already monitored and managed to stay within a conservative range by Ford engineers. If it's depleted, the gas engine automatically kicks in and keeps it charged within a certain range. It's a thing of beauty. Potentially I could do something like try to power a rock concert and drain the battery faster than the gas engine could recharge it, but short of that kind of thing (in theory), I kinda think it'd be fine.
            It is the same thing for the 12V. If the engine is on, it will keep the 12V pretty constant with a DC-DC charger. you would not be able to get as many amps out but a heck of a lot safer

            OutBack FP1 w/ CS6P-250P http://bit.ly/1Sg5VNH

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Chris4943 View Post
              I’ve googled looking for anybody who's attempted utilizing the hybrid battery like this, but anybody who’s asked this same question basically gets scoffed at out of hand without any consideration.
              I've done this with my Prius. AIMS sells an inverter that works from 180-260 volt DC in (Prius battery is usually around 210 volts) It will output 2000 watts continuous and surge to 3000. However it will not work at ~330 volts.

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              • #8
                It can be done, and has been done. But there are two issues for you.

                1. Will void your warranty. You have to make alterations to your vehicle to access the Traction Battery Pack. You cannot hide that from the dealer.
                2. You have to design and make the Inverter.

                I have helped a few folks do this, but their EV's are DIY using 144 volt Traction Battery and there are hundreds of Inverters made to work at 140 volt battery as that is a common voltage both Telephone and Electric Utilities use routinely. Lots of them for sale on the salvage and second hand market.
                MSEE, PE

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                • #9
                  Could you disconnect the accessory 12v battery and connect the battery cables to a 12v battery bank?

                  Would the extra amperage fry the wiring?

                  Does the prius charge the battery when voltage drops or amperage? Would it know to charge?

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Off grid guy View Post
                    Could you disconnect the accessory 12v battery and connect the battery cables to a 12v battery bank?

                    Would the extra amperage fry the wiring?

                    Does the prius charge the battery when voltage drops or amperage? Would it know to charge?
                    A plug-in Prius only charges the 12vdc battery when it's ICE is running. Plugging the car it to re-charge it, will re-charge the main battery, but does nothing to maintain the 12vdc battery. I have had the 12vdc battery go dead while the car was plugged in.

                    When the car is 'off' the 12vdc battery current is used to operate the locks, interior lighting and to start-up the car.

                    Adding a battery-bank might be good when you find the 12vdc battery is dead, but leaving it wired in the Prius would never be able to re-charge the battery-bank.

                    None of the vehicle circuits should ever draw any more current than they are designed to draw. Unless a mouse has eaten away some of the edible wiring harness insulation [which happens and causes these vehicles to be totaled].
                    4400w, Midnite Classic 150 charge-controller.

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                    • #11
                      What if the car was left

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                      • #12
                        What if the car was left on?

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                        • #13
                          I thought the 12 volt charges from the main battery?

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Off grid guy View Post
                            I thought the 12 volt charges from the main battery?
                            The 12v battery charges from a DC to DC buck converter off the main Traction bus. But only when the car is on. There is a button by the foot pedals to turn off the key detection circuit for when the car is parked long times so the 12v battery doesnt drain too fast.
                            OutBack FP1 w/ CS6P-250P http://bit.ly/1Sg5VNH

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                            • #15
                              One day I went out to my Prius Prime, it had been left plugged in overnight, and it refused to start-up. When I tried to access the 12vdc battery, I found the trunk would not unlock [it needs the 12vdc circuit to have a charge to unlock things]. The car is under warranty so I called the dealership and a tow truck came out. They jumped the car by connecting to the terminals under the hood. Once the car was started then everything was fine.

                              I got an appointment with the dealership, and took it in. They looked at it and said the 12vdc battery had simply ran down because the ICE had not been running frequently enough. They did not replace the 12vdc battery.

                              Thankfully the doors were not locked. If I had left the car parked with the doors locked, I don't think we would have been able to get under the hood. The tow truck would have needed to haul it into the dealership for them to figure out how to re-charge the 12vdc battery.
                              4400w, Midnite Classic 150 charge-controller.

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