Looking for a good solar set up, off grid only

[maple flats]

Largest load will be about 2000 watts, a motor, with a surge above that, rare but occasional. There will be no connect to "home wiring", this will be the "home wiring". At present all120 except 1 motor a 1240V 9.5A old winch motor is it, but I need the option to run my 240 welder at times for small projects, that is 10A at 240V. Then, if I needed to run very long I'd use the gen. I'll need gen./charger support at times, but manual start.Did I answer all the questions?

[Sunking]

Largest load will be about 2000 watts, a motor, with a surge above that, rare but occasional. There will be no connect to "home wiring", this will be the "home wiring". At present 120 is it, but I need the option to run my 240 welder at times for small projects, that is 10A at 240V. Then, if I needed to run very long I'd use the gen. I'll need gen./charger support at times, but manual start.Did I answer all the questions?

Flats is that 200 watt motor 120 volts? I find that hard to believe as that exceeds a 20 amp 120 circuit.

Also you statement about home wiring is confusing. The Inverter is either powering your home or an extension cord. Will it be hard wired to your home electrical system?

Sorry guy but we need to understand each other OK? I don't want you to screw this up again and have to do it twice.

[maple flats]

This will not be in my home, but at a camp. It will be hard wired in the camp but with no grid power. The motor is wired 240 but could be wired 120, it is an either/or type motor, by simply connecting different leads in the motor. I have however, never changed it to 120 nor do I want to, because the lower amperage is better for wire gauge as it , when run, has a 225' lead by UF cable to an outbuilding. If I changed it to 120 I would need a heavier UF feeding it which I do not want to do. This camp has NO GRID POWER and unless I am given a winning lottery ticket (I do not buy them) it will never get grid power, the distance to the nearest power line is about 4 miles.
The 3.4 KWH will only be on days when we are at the camp, which is most weekends, and I stop in 1 or 2x a week in between.
The UF cable feed is only 14 ga. and if I went to 120V my voltage loss would be too high, at 240V I lose about 5% as it is. That motor is only used 2x a year, winching a dock in or towing it out by a pulley system.

[Sunking]

Let's make this easy and less expensive. Since this is a weekend camp, we do not have to design for daily cycle. That means less panel wattage, less battery, lower battery voltage, and less money.

Let's drop down to 24 volt battery with a 2000/4000 watt Inverter Schneider (Xantrex) Conext 2424 120/240. Unfortunately Outback does not make any 240/120 Off Grid Inverters that I know of. All of it is 120 VAC. With 240/120 there are three players. Schneider (Xantrex), Apollo Solar, and Magnum. There might be others I am not aware of but you want built-In Charger and Generator Support. Outback does make 240/120 Grid Interactive Inverters that can be used as Stand-Alone Off-Grid but you are over paying for something you do not need.

For a battery we can use a 24 volt 400 AH battery in Rolls as Rolls can handle both C/5 charge/discharge rate, or even a Trojan Industrial line. In the Roll's product line something like S-600 or 6CS17PS. . In Trojan something like IND9-6V is an excellent 7 year battery.

For panel wattage I cannot see going any higher than 2000 watts. Anywhere from 1500 watts using a 60 amp MPPT controller like a MorningStar Tristar 60 amp, up to 2000 watts with a 80 amp Midnite Solar Classic 150. Maybe even better an Xantrex XW-MPPT60-150 as it should Integrate with the Inverter.

Go check that out and see what you think.

[maple flats]

Will that carry the load when we spend the summer there? We also spend one week there in the winter. Additionally we are thinking of moving there full time in a few 3-4years. I want the solar system to carry that full time. I Realize the battery bank will be a recurring cost, but based on my Trojan battery experience I think I can get at least 10+ years out of a set, my current Trojan bank is 9 yrs. old and still doing well even though they have a 7 yr life expectancy. The Rolls should do that much better. While I can't say cost is no object, I can say I want to set it up right and am willing to spend the money to do so. The battery bank will be in the cellar and will be vented to outside. That cellar never gets below freezing, even when the outside temps may hit -30F.
You are right, I do not need to be able to tie to the grid.

[cassieyu]

To say a digression.
As solar system,recently I received several email about Solid Desiccant Rotor Dehumidification System.The system wanted is driven by solar thermal energy.
I think somedays, the solar will be energy of our life.

[maple flats]

Maybe I need to try to spell my issue out all in one post. I'll start from the beginning again.
I have a camp that is now used weekends in the winter and all summer and it will become our full time retirement home in a very few years. It does not have grid power nor will it ever have grid power (nearest grid power is almost 4 miles away) Our power demand when we are there now is 3.4 KWH daily and once we move there it will be the same. I still need to measure, I need to mount the panels on a south facing wall and I think I want Solar World 280 Watt panels, I just need to see if I can fit 2 rows of 5 or 2 rows of 4. That is the only place where I can get full sun. I think I want a 450 AH Rolls 48V battery bank in the 5000 series. I have several generators (3) that can charge the bank, including my largest which is a 15KW gasifier powered gen which on woodgas will only get about 10,000 watts for about 90 minutes on a fuel tube of small wood chunks. That would be my primary gen. but if I needed something fast I could run the 6500 watt Gas or the 6000 watt diesel ones. the battery bank will be in the cellar, which seldom gets below freezing even if we have a spell of -30F outside.
I want to get this ready for us to move there full time. My power needs include a 240V motor which runs an old winch that both pulls the boat dock in AND powers it out, once a year. On the tag that is 9.5A at 240V but it is only on a 14 ga. UF cable and is 225' from where the camp is and where the solar will be so I want to keep it 240 and because of the terrain I can't get the generators any closer than maybe 400' or slightly more to the winch. Thus running the winch off a generator is not likely a good approach.My other big possible load is a welder but the welding could be done at the generators if the system could not handle that.
My generators will be about 175' from the solar system and I have a 6/3 SJ cable to run the power to power the system if/when the system needs a boost but that is stored in a shed to keep it from getting UV damage, SJ does not like the sun and I want to use that rather than buying a sun rated 6 ga. cable until I need to. At that time I'd likely run conduit and THHN but about 125' would be on the surface on bedrock.
Now, please suggest the best choice or at least a good choice, to power 120/240, what inverter (must be pure sine wave for sensitive electronics), 60A (or 80A) MPPT controller, and are the solar world 280 watt panels any good? I think they also have some a little over 300 watts (315?)
The battery bank will be in the cellar, vented to outside, the inverter and CC and main panel box will be in an unheated room, just above the batteries. From there the camp will be wired normally, except we will have all LED lights, the TV will be LED, a blueRay, I plan to get a notebook computer and will not take my desktop one for power reasons. The Fridge and freezer are both new in the last 3 months and both are small energy star ones. The drinking water will be hauled in, but we will have a well pump, 120V and 6A, slow but sure, and older than me (69), an old piston pump, on a 1/4 hp motor.
Except when I have unusually heavy loads (I will have a 100A panel but will likely not run even half that) We want to run the generator (which?) as seldom as necessary.
Please advise.

[Sunking]

Flats based on what you say you want I would go with a Schneider SW4048E and a Midnite Classic 200 Controler.

With Respect to Off Grid Inverters with 240/120, generator support, operating at 48 volts Only leave you a couple of choices. The 4048 is a 3400/7000 Kva inverter with 45 amp charger built in which is the perfect size for a 450 AH battery. The Midnite Solar Classic 200 gives the high voltage input you need with the large panels. Another contender for really high voltage input is the Morningstar TriStar 600-60 MPPT controller that has 600 volt input with 60 amps out. That would allow you to only have to use one single string of panels and fairly small wire between panels and Controller. It saves you big bucks on installtion an dis really efficient. With 60 amps allows you to grow 3200 watts on a 48 volt battery.

[Mike90250]

Now that I see the whole thing in one post, I'll add and disagree with what Sunking said.
I love the XW line of inverters. Be sure you get the XW, not SW. you want the ComBox remote too,
With a 48v bank, I would not wire the PV's for more than 110VDC - I have been there and done that. I have 2 arrays of evergreen panels
One runs about 115V on a Morningstar MPPT 60, the other is 160V into a Classic 200
the classic sucks converting the high volt DC down to 48V. Runs hot, and harvests less power than the Morningstar. Manage the wiring on the arrays to be between 80 -110VDC. You have to watch the cold weather and the panels Open Circuit voltage, so you do not fry the controller with too high of voltage. Morningstar has a configuration tool / Sizing tool on their website.
Put the charge controller and inverter near the batteries, no more than 8' away. When you run the high amp runs at 48V, you want them as short as possible

With the XW and it's generator support programming, you don't need a large generator, much over 5KW will be wasted.

[Sunking]

Mike XW is Hybrid aka Grid Interactive with Battery support right? I know you can force the XW to work stand alone but are you not paying for something you do not use. The SW4048 runs about $2100, the SW4000 watt models or more like $3000 right

My comment of High Voltage was directed at Morningstart 600-60 controller. Midnite solar Classic 200 on 48 volt battery works best at 70 Vmp.

[Mike90250]

Argh, Sorry Sunking. I thought the SW was the 30 steps "waveform" (not MSW, not PSW)

Yes, the XW has dual AC inputs, and can do the grid tie. There are larger XW models if the SW is not large enough (XW has larger charger circuit)

if one is going to limit the PV string DC voltage to 70V, I'd still get the Morningstar 60A MPPT, or the classic 150, no need to go to the Classic 200 which has a lower amp rating.

[Sunking]

Argh, Sorry Sunking. I thought the SW was the 30 steps "waveform" (not MSW, not PSW)

No problem, thought I might have missed something because I was pretty sure the XW was for hybrid and would work, but just more expensive than SW which if just Stand-Alone. Both have True Sine Wave Inverters. Only thing I do not like about Xantrex (Scheider) is they do not make an integrated Charge Controller. All they still offer is the antiquated PWM last I checked. Correct me if I am wrong.

If it were me I would use the MornigStar 600-60 over any Midnite Solar product given Flats requirements. Can easily fit 3200 watts in a single string which translate to fairly big $$$ on installation cost and simplicity.

[hammick]

The SW4048 runs about $2100

I paid $1,575 for my SW4048

[Mike90250]

Schneider Does have a solar MPPT controller, but it's a very pricey 600VDC rated one.

http://solar.schneider-electric.com/product/conext-mppt-80-600/

[maple flats]

With the batteries in the cellar, I can put a heavy support down and raise the battery cabinet about 2', that will leave the battery bank to the at about 8' from the CC and the inverter in the room above it.. It sounds like the SW4048E will be good, I'm still uncertain on the CC, you experts seem to disagree. When I see one edging out over the other, I'll settle on that. I sure don't like the sound of the one running hot. Heat in electrical equipment is wasted energy.
I hear nothing so far bad about the Solar World panels, thus I think I'll go with those. I forgot to measure my south side wall available space when I was there earlier this afternoon, I still need to see if I can fit 5x2 or only 4x2 of the 280 watt panels. I can't fit 3 rows high because I'd get some shading near the overhang, in fact I'm going to cut back the overhand on that side. It is now about 26-28", I'll shorten it to about 12 or shade will be a factor on the top row in the summer months.