Aquions How low can I go?

[OffGridHawaiian]

First thing I can see is your Schneider Monitor is not properly loaded to match the battery voltages. Note what happens at 17:00 hours:

Battery voltage drops instantly from 58 volt to 54 volts when a load turns on. That is OK and expected from a battery with a high internal resistance. So I do no thave a problem with that.

What I have a problem with is at that exact same time SOC jumps up from 80% to 100%, exact opposite of what the battery voltage is doing. These batteries 100% SOC is 60 volts, and on this graph you never reach 60 volts. At 17:00 hour sis your highest voltage of 58 volts, and you SOC reads 80% which is close. But then a load turns on and voltage drops to 54 volts, but SOC goes up to 100% which is NONSENSE.

The other hint is at 08:00 battery voltage shows roughly 47.5 volts but SOC indicated 20% which is again nonsense for these batteries. 20% should be around 40 or less volts.

If i had to guess I would say your monitor is using a FLA algorithm getting confused with out of range voltages. Clue here is 47.5 volts correlates to a FLA battery at 20 to 30% SOC. Not certain what 47.5 volts is on Aquion batteries, but a heck of a lot higher than 20%. Common Sense will tell you that because 100% = 60 volts and 0% = 30 volts.

So far I have not found any charts or tables from Aquion plotting SOC to voltage. Having said that not sure they would be a lot of help because with a battery with such high internal resistance, voltages are pretty much useless to determine SOC if the battery has any charge or discharge current flowing.

Only way I can see to monitor these beast is with Coulomb Counting and even that is problematic with such high Peukert losses. For lack of better words you got a BAM on the loose in a Submarine.

Aloha Sunking,

Thank you for your wisdom

This reminds me of an old Isuzu Pup that the gas gauge went out but the odometer was working. Had to bounce her up and down to hear the sloshing in the fuel tank to try to figure how far I could go. Kinda like the Aquions Only thing is they are too heavy to bounce around.

[OffGridHawaiian]

I am not sure if Hawaii power company require the OP to purchase such amount KHW to stay connected and the fee for stay connected.
In Jamaica, the commercial customer has to pay $9 US and the household customer to pay US$3.10 to stay connected. I am not grid tie but I use the grid to assist when I have bad weather or cloudy days (which is almost every day where I live.)

Aloha paulcheung,

Just paid the electric bill today. Have not used any power from the Grid for this bill. $21.79 This month used about 7 hours so we will see a larger bill next time.

So you have a big switch like me, that turns on the utility and turns it off?

Could I use the Grid like a generator?

[OffGridHawaiian]

A few pictures of our system, including the switch to the grid, and our battery box. SSC_0092.JPGSSC_0093.JPGSSC_0094.JPGSSC_0095.JPG

[Willy T]

Could I use the Grid like a generator?

Absolutely !! You can control a automatic transfer switch with the AGS and charge as necessary.

[SunEagle]

Absolutely !! You can control a automatic transfer switch with the AGS and charge as necessary.

He still may need to get approval from the Utility for that type of installation. Some type of auto transfer switches do not necessarily meet POCO requirements based on what parameters and timing is programmed into the transfer logic.

There usually needs to be some type of time delay or cycle count to keep an ATS from switching too many times within a specific period.

[Willy T]

He still may need to get approval from the Utility for that type of installation. Some type of auto transfer switches do not necessarily meet POCO requirements based on what parameters and timing is programmed into the transfer logic.

There usually needs to be some type of time delay or cycle count to keep an ATS from switching too many times within a specific period.

He's not gird tied or net metering. Once you get past the meter base your in NEC territory. As long as your within their entrance amp rating, I don't see where they have anything to say about you use their power.

I'd actually rather use a stand alone charger and a VCS ( voltage controlled switch ) to pull the charger in and out as necessary and they have a delay built in.

If you don't know how to program a Schneider AGS, try this.

http://www.schneider-electric.com/download/US/EN/file/681185495-Automatic-Generator-Start-_AGS_-Owner_s-Guide.pdf/?fileName=Automatic-Generator-Start-_AGS_-Owner_s-Guide.pdf&reference=Automatic-Generator-Start-_AGS_-Owner_s-Guide&docType=Instruction-sheet

[Amy@altE]

Aloha Amy,

We have one of those monitors and we can see the amp hours. Going back over our last couple of months, seems like we never made it to 59V but we are at 100% SOC and 1000Ah.




[ATTACH=CONFIG]6074[/ATTACH]

Does the SoC match up between it and the ComBox?

[SunEagle]

He's not gird tied or net metering. Once you get past the meter base your in NEC territory. As long as your within their entrance amp rating, I don't see where they have anything to say about you use their power.

I'd actually rather use a stand alone charger and a VCS ( voltage controlled switch ) to pull the charger in and out as necessary and they have a delay built in.

If you don't know how to program a Schneider AGS, try this.

http://www.schneider-electric.com/do...truction-sheet

It still comes down to how you have the ATS programmed to switch. If it has anything to do with the "quality of power" on the Grid side then the POCO will have a say.

That is the whole issue in Hawaii with all of the PV installations. The POCO has stopped new installs until they can get "a handle" on how those systems affect the Grid power quality. You can't have your system connecting and disconnecting multiple times an hour. It will cause transients, voltage and frequency issues on the Grid.

Now if your ATS is programmed to only connect to the grid when your battery system is low and disconnect after it has been charged I would think there would be less disruption but again any time you can connect to the Grid the POCO will have a say in what you can and cannot do. It has nothing to do where the connection is just if you connect to the grid or not.

Almost similar to some water companies that require a "back-flow" preventor on a hose connection at your house. They do not want any chance of contamination that can flow back into "their" water system.

Now if the "grid" connection is nothing more than turning a "charger on and off" I agree the POCO should have not say in the matter.

[Living Large]

Now if the "grid" connection is nothing more than turning a "charger on and off" I agree the POCO should have not say in the matter.

Are there two possibilities - one being the POCO connection is switched in and the inverter switched out (transfer switch?), and the POCO is only used to power the house, the second being the POCO takes the place of the generator and powers the XW, thereby ? I would think the latter would be what one desires.

In either of these scenarios, my initial guess would have been the POCO wouldn't have a say in the matter. Just trying to follow the conversation. I'll shut up and keep reading...

[SunEagle]

Are there two possibilities - one being the POCO connection is switched in and the inverter switched out (transfer switch?), and the POCO is only used to power the house, the second being the POCO takes the place of the generator and powers the XW, thereby ? I would think the latter would be what one desires.

In either of these scenarios, my initial guess would have been the POCO wouldn't have a say in the matter. Just trying to follow the conversation. I'll shut up and keep reading...

No. You and Willy T are correct. My first assumption was that a "connection to the grid" involved the possibility of sending power back to the POCO.

What is really happening is your second scenario which would be an automated switch that would turn on a "charger" if the battery voltage goes too low. The grid connection would be nothing more that a "load" being turned on and off from a timer.

The POCO would not have a say in the matter unless the "load" was a 1000hp motor. That might dim the lights of your neighbor when it starts up and raise the POCO's eyebrows.

[Sunking]

Aloha Sunking,

Thank you for your wisdom

You are welcome but it appears your battery monitoring system is not compatible with the batteries. Battery voltages and SOC are no where near each other.

[toothy]

Hello from 60 deg N

I wanted to see offgridHawaiian's pictures so I needed one post.

I'm probably going to buy 18 stacks soon, I know Sunking your not a fan, but I'm the one who has to baby sit my FLA's, a real pain in the winter.

Also thanks offgridHawaiian for sharing from your neighbor due North.

Wade

[Living Large]

Hello from 60 deg N

I wanted to see offgridHawaiian's pictures so I needed one post.

I'm probably going to buy 18 stacks soon, I know Sunking your not a fan, but I'm the one who has to baby sit my FLA's, a real pain in the winter.

Also thanks offgridHawaiian for sharing from your neighbor due North.

Wade

There are numerous factors to consider when evaluating different battery chemistries, and each person's situation is different. Initially, I was attracted to AHI for my off grid application by the no maintenance aspect, and also the fact you don't have to deal with outgassing in a basement.

However, once I looked into the operational parameters and estimated exactly what I would be facing if I had an AHI bank, it was unworkable. The main disadvantage was generator run time. I would have to run 6 to 8 hours every 2-3 days in winter. ongridHawaiian is in Hawaii, I am at 42 deg N, and get 1/3 the sun in winter he does. You are at 60 deg N. Are you off grid? How much sun do you get, and what is your daily energy consumption? What size array do you have?

I switched to LFP, and my estimated gen run time went down to 2-3 hours.

[toothy]

Living Large,

We are off grid, no wires from the outside unless you count the phone and that is not much use for juice.

We use between 5-10 Kwh per day we have 2 arrays one @ 2000w and one @ 3000w and a 1kw wind turbine.

We don't get much real sun in the late fall and early winter. I just can't stand worrying about damaging the FLa's,
I'd rather recycle them than think about them.

I take it your run times a calculated not real world? To get those short run times you must have quite the generator and charger. My inverters don't have a lot of umph on the charge side 2-Outback vfx3648, they seem to max out around 70A DC. I did just install 2- SW5548 as chargers only and they seem to put out a bit better.

On the Aquions, not having to worry about 100% soc on a regular basis, or ever, would make my life a lot easier. I really never use the gen auto start, it works and all but it is not the way I'm programed. I would rather turn it on when I wanted run it a few hours and hope for some sun or wind in the next day or 2.

Wade

[OffGridHawaiian]

Hello from 60 deg N

but I'm the one who has to baby sit my FLA's, a real pain in the winter.

Aloha Wade,

Exactly the same reason went with the Aquions. No baby sitting