My 24 Aquion AHI batteries

[SunEagle]

I know a solar guru who, tongue in cheek, suggested that if all the tree huggers believed oil truly was in short supply, they should support lowering the price to zero. We'd burn it all up, and then be forced to use solar.

Are those the same ones that think Solar & Wind can produce all of the power needed to keep everything going 24/7?

[SunEagle]

Oil prices are volitile, but oil is not used to generate electricity except on Islands. Natural gas and Coal prices are fairly stable and have been coming down for th elast 8 years and expected to keep going down as we have more than what we know to do with and no end in site.

OPEC plans are working great as they drive US and Russia producers out of biz. OPEC has no problem selling oil for $50/barrel as it only cost them a few dollars to produce a barrel and don't have stupid energy policies that drive US production cost to above $55/barrel. We have more oil than any other country in the world, it is just not profitable at less than $57/barrel as the Employment Prevention Agency and Unions has seen fit to do.

I agree that oil is not used to generate electricity and will not matter for most main land countries. But on islands (like Hawaii) or very remote locations, diesel seems to be the #1 fuel source to run generators.

[J.P.M.]

Oil prices are volitile, but oil is not used to generate electricity except on Islands. Natural gas and Coal prices are fairly stable and have been coming down for th elast 8 years and expected to keep going down as we have more than what we know to do with and no end in site.

OPEC plans are working great as they drive US and Russia producers out of biz. OPEC has no problem selling oil for $50/barrel as it only cost them a few dollars to produce a barrel and don't have stupid energy policies that drive US production cost to above $55/barrel. We have more oil than any other country in the world, it is just not profitable at less than $57/barrel as the Employment Prevention Agency and Unions has seen fit to do.

I know a solar guru who, tongue in cheek, suggested that if all the tree huggers believed oil truly was in short supply, they should support lowering the price to zero. We'd burn it all up, and then be forced to use solar.

[Sunking]

Because what goes down may (and has for fuel) go up again.

Oil prices are volitile, but oil is not used to generate electricity except on Islands. Natural gas and Coal prices are fairly stable and have been coming down for th elast 8 years and expected to keep going down as we have more than what we know to do with and no end in site.

OPEC plans are working great as they drive US and Russia producers out of biz. OPEC has no problem selling oil for $50/barrel as it only cost them a few dollars to produce a barrel and don't have stupid energy policies that drive US production cost to above $55/barrel. We have more oil than any other country in the world, it is just not profitable at less than $57/barrel as the Employment Prevention Agency and Unions has seen fit to do.

[SunEagle]

That's right, fuel prices going down so electric rates going down too. What was I thinking

Because what goes down may (and has for fuel) go up again.

[OffGridHawaiian]

How dare you ruin Hawaii with your solar panels and environmentally friendly Bill Gates batteries. Do the right thing and get yourself hooked up to the Hawaiian grid with that good imported petrochemical produced power.

That's right, fuel prices going down so electric rates going down too. What was I thinking

[donald]

Sunking you're making me feel bad. I did pay through the nose, thought was doing a good thing going with the Salt Water Technology, but now I'm a heavy polluter too.

How dare you ruin Hawaii with your solar panels and environmentally friendly Bill Gates batteries. Do the right thing and get yourself hooked up to the Hawaiian grid with that good imported petrochemical produced power.

[donald]

The objection to lead is mostly the mining.

[gardner]

Sunking you're making me feel bad. I did pay through the nose, thought was doing a good thing going with the Salt Water Technology, but now I'm a heavy polluter too.

Well, hopefully these Aquion batteries have a longer service life than LA. I do take some exceptions to Aquion's claims of "cleaner" technology though. Lead batteries are one of the most highly recycled items in the modern economy. Virtually 100% of lead batteries are recycled.

[OffGridHawaiian]

Donald you got a bit to learn.

Any off grid battery system has two pitfalls.

1. Over the life of the system you will end up paying 5 to 10 more for electricity for the rest of your life. It is a never ending cycle of battery replacement.

2. This is the big one. There is NO EROI. A battery system EROI is less than 1. That means come time of death for the system, the system wil no thave generated as much power as it took to make the system.

So with any battery system you are heavy polluter and paying through the nose.

Sunking you're making me feel bad. I did pay through the nose, thought was doing a good thing going with the Salt Water Technology, but now I'm a heavy polluter too.

[Sunking]

Only because the full cost of burning fossil fuels are not reflected in current prices.

Donald you got a bit to learn.

Any off grid battery system has two pitfalls.

1. Over the life of the system you will end up paying 5 to 10 more for electricity for the rest of your life. It is a never ending cycle of battery replacement.

2. This is the big one. There is NO EROI. A battery system EROI is less than 1. That means come time of death for the system, the system wil no thave generated as much power as it took to make the system.

So with any battery system you are heavy polluter and paying through the nose.

[SunEagle]

Only because the full cost of burning fossil fuels are not reflected in current prices. Ironically, burning fossil fuels are burning stored solar energy. So I don't buy your absolutist statement. But what you say is true today as a practical point.

Periodically available energy may be the true least cost in the long run. If the long wrong includes the cost of future generations.

The issue being is that most "civilized" people demand continuous power from their Utilities. That continuous power can't just come from Renewable. RE may be "cleaner" but it is variable and needs to be backed up with instantaneous replacement power. To do that requires a % of electrical generators that use fossil fuel to already be on line. That practice is not only expensive (generators are not efficient when running at low output) but burns more fuel due to their inefficiency.

The only way RE becomes the "least cost" is to not use electricity when you can't generate it. The side affect of no power and light results in an increase of the population which is even a bigger issue than no power.

[donald]

...........The reason is even if you could utilize all the power the panels can generate in a day, the system will never generate more energy than it takes to make the system. They waste resources.

Only because the full cost of burning fossil fuels are not reflected in current prices. Ironically, burning fossil fuels are burning stored solar energy. So I don't buy your absolutist statement. But what you say is true today as a practical point.

Periodically available energy may be the true least cost in the long run. If the long wrong includes the cost of future generations.

[SunEagle]

Told my uncle, who lives adjacent to our property, to bring his extension cord over during the day

Maybe you can start some type of battery charging service with your extra power.

[OffGridHawaiian]

There is nothing you can do about it. It indicates you just have too much panel wattage. It is not so much about wasting energy in as much as you are not utilizing energy. Unfortunately any off grid system is not capable of utilizing all the potential energy it could produce. They have to be over sized especially in months with long Solar Hour Days. Otherwise if you had a cloudy day with no charging you would never be able to get caught up.

Only thing you can really do is once the batteries are fully charged start turning stuff on and use the excess for something like run the dishwasher, washing machine, irrigation, ect.. It just requires you change your daily routine and lifestyle.

Told my uncle, who lives adjacent to our property, to bring his extension cord over during the day