A small modular emergency solar set up

[jimindenver]

I can make a simple enclosure that takes some of the bite off the 3500/4000. Champion sells a enclosure that will bring it down too. Any more than that I'm out of room. Honda sells a box for the 2000w that will knock off 8 db for only $1000. lol

The Champions can be paralleled too. I've heard there was a set up that allowed 3 Honda 2000w together. Then again I heard that two running a AC makes quite the racket. I'd need a Yamaha 4500 to stay on the quieter end at altitude. Too much and too big for as little as we would use it. There is a Champion 2000i for $300 on CL but the altitude would cut its 1600 running watts to under 1000w. It would not run our 55a converter, the microwave or hair dryer. It might run the coffee pot if the warming plate was off. Any of the 2800w inverter generators would let us do what two of the panels and bank does.

I will say this, once people get past spending the bucks for a red or a blue, you rarely hear them complain.

[mschulz]

I will say this, once people get past spending the bucks for a red or a blue, you rarely hear them complain.

Writing the check is the only hard part of the purchase.

[SunEagle]

The OP originally said he only wanted to power a 12V fan, LEDs and an emergency radio. One of those jump boxes and a backup battery would do that fine and probably for a few days. The internal 20Ah battery in those is why I suggested he buy a 100Ah FLA as well.
I didn't read the "wanting to run a freezer" part until later, which is when I suggested the actual generator.
Yes the 2Ks are only a couple hundred more than the 1Ks but it seemed to me the OP was trying to go the cheapest route.

I agree if the OP wanted to stay with a minimal load they wouldn't have to spend much and a jump box with a spare battery would work. But like most people once you start down this path they rationalize that they can easily add more and more load to their battery system only to find out it is not enough or does not last more than a year.

Running his emergency loads from batteries is ok if the load is small. Using solar to recharge those batteries is more costly than using a generator. The generator gives you the option of charging the batteries and running larger loads that the batteries can't.

Again, I fully support solar technology and feel a grid tie system for most people is a good idea and will eventually pay for itself. Although when people talk about emergency power systems my first selection now is a generator in conjunction with small battery operated equipment like flashlights and radios. Solar panels would be at the bottom of my list after a hand crank generator.

[Amy@altE]

MJ52, I'm here in MA too, and totally understand your need for backup. My hubby just bought a small 7CF freezer to convert into a kegorator (he's so happy right now, but I digress). We've got a Kill-a-watt meter on it, I'll check tonight what it is drawing, although he's modified it to only cool to 38F, so it will be a little light. But the specs say it uses 700wh a day as a freezer. Most of the winter storms, you don't need to worry about keeping food cold, mother nature does that for you, so really you would need to concern yourself with Spring - Fall. Say 4 sun hours, so you'd need about a 260W panel, assuming the sun comes back out with a couple of days after the storm passes. 3 days battery backup, again, I sometimes forget what the sun looks like here, requires 450ah 12V battery bank.

If you did want to stick with your original loads list, you could likely get away with doing everything 12V DC, and don't bother with an inverter. We've got a 12V 100W panel for about $150, a little 10A charge controller for $50. The battery is what will get you, because again, if you are trying to get backup in the winter, 3 days is the minimum you should plan for. Again, depending on your loads, maybe 200ah of battery for the small system, for AGM, that's in the $600 range. If you did want to run your circulator pump, I'd go bigger on the solar to help out for longer outages and partial sun days.

Amy

[thastinger]

MJ52, I'm here in MA too, and totally understand your need for backup. My hubby just bought a small 7CF freezer to convert into a kegorator (he's so happy right now, but I digress). We've got a Kill-a-watt meter on it, I'll check tonight what it is drawing, although he's modified it to only cool to 38F, so it will be a little light. But the specs say it uses 700wh a day as a freezer. Most of the winter storms, you don't need to worry about keeping food cold, mother nature does that for you, so really you would need to concern yourself with Spring - Fall. Say 4 sun hours, so you'd need about a 260W panel, assuming the sun comes back out with a couple of days after the storm passes. 3 days battery backup, again, I sometimes forget what the sun looks like here, requires 450ah 12V battery bank.

If you did want to stick with your original loads list, you could likely get away with doing everything 12V DC, and don't bother with an inverter. We've got a 12V 100W panel for about $150, a little 10A charge controller for $50. The battery is what will get you, because again, if you are trying to get backup in the winter, 3 days is the minimum you should plan for. Again, depending on your loads, maybe 200ah of battery for the small system, for AGM, that's in the $600 range. If you did want to run your circulator pump, I'd go bigger on the solar to help out for longer outages and partial sun days.

Amy

Should not be more than .5KwH per day. I converted an 8CuFt freezer to act as a fridge via the external temp controller and that is what I see for consumption in my off-grid garage.

[mj52]

The purpose of this thread is an idiot (myself) thinking out loud.

How can I utilize a limited solar array during a time of need.

Depending upon the season what we need to power changes and if the outage is of any length different options do make for easier choices.

Why wouldn't I utilize natural gas if all I need to feed is a small circulator pump. It's cold, we need heat, maybe I can freeze water during the night to keep the freezer fine and dandy so all I need to worry about is the pump. If it turns out it would cost $10K for 2 hours of battery my firewood starts to look like a good investment.

If it's summer the Endless Breeze fan would be a Godsend and once again if it's $10K for 2 hrs for the freezer there will be a barbecue for our neighbors

So what can be done?

Respectfully, mj52

AMY,
A kegerator is brilliant and your husband is a lucky man.

[mschulz]

The purpose of this thread is an idiot (myself) thinking out loud.

How can I utilize a limited solar array during a time of need.

Depending upon the season what we need to power changes and if the outage is of any length different options do make for easier choices.

Why wouldn't I utilize natural gas if all I need to feed is a small circulator pump. It's cold, we need heat, maybe I can freeze water during the night to keep the freezer fine and dandy so all I need to worry about is the pump. If it turns out it would cost $10K for 2 hours of battery my firewood starts to look like a good investment.

If it's summer the Endless Breeze fan would be a Godsend and once again if it's $10K for 2 hrs for the freezer there will be a barbecue for our neighbors

So what can be done?

Respectfully, mj52

AMY,
A kegerator is brilliant and your husband is a lucky man.

Ok I will help you out- Buy the following-

One of these https://www.google.com/shopping/prod...d=0CJUBEKYrMAI

One of these: https://www.google.com/search?es_sm=...19320802470301

One of these: http://www.floorcare.com/trojan-12v-...FS0Q7Aod1X8A1g

one of these:https://www.google.com/shopping/prod...d=0CLICEKYrMAw

and one of these:https://www.google.com/search?es_sm=...25082437685768

For around a $1000 you have a fridge/freezer and enough juice to run your fan. Add a battery charger to to maintain that battery when not in use and you are set. Remember you get to spend $300 bucks every 2-3 years to replace the battery.

How is one of those $500-$700 generators looking now?

[mj52]

Mschulz,

Thank you for the info I'll look at it.

I have a 3Kw generator 120V/20A and over a few outages have learned how and what. It hasn't paid for itself yet but the knowledge that "IF" I can does offer a little comfort. So we couldn't use the dryer or cook a turkey, life went on.

I look at this solar array along the same lines. Cost will be the determing factor and this idea very well may be shelved.

Respectfully, mj52

[mschulz]

Mschulz,

Thank you for the info I'll look at it.

I have a 3Kw generator 120V/20A and over a few outages have learned how and what. It hasn't paid for itself yet but the knowledge that "IF" I can does offer a little comfort. So we couldn't use the dryer or cook a turkey, life went on.

I look at this solar array along the same lines. Cost will be the determing factor and this idea very well may be shelved.

Respectfully, mj52

For what you pay for the list of stuff in my post, you can buy a lot of gasoline for your generator. Get a transfer switch and you are in business. Yeah they are noise, but how many times a year are you really going to need it any way. Just go into this cautiously and do your homework. There is a wealth of knowledge on this site and it will save you from making a costly mistake if you listen to it. I wish going solar really was cost effective, but I have not been able to make it really pencil.

[SunEagle]

The purpose of this thread is an idiot (myself) thinking out loud.

How can I utilize a limited solar array during a time of need.

Depending upon the season what we need to power changes and if the outage is of any length different options do make for easier choices.

Why wouldn't I utilize natural gas if all I need to feed is a small circulator pump. It's cold, we need heat, maybe I can freeze water during the night to keep the freezer fine and dandy so all I need to worry about is the pump. If it turns out it would cost $10K for 2 hours of battery my firewood starts to look like a good investment.

If it's summer the Endless Breeze fan would be a Godsend and once again if it's $10K for 2 hrs for the freezer there will be a barbecue for our neighbors

So what can be done?

Respectfully, mj52

AMY,
A kegerator is brilliant and your husband is a lucky man.

Please don't feel you are anything close to an "idiot". You were just uninformed. I also jumped into the fray deciding I needed an emergency power system and it had to use solar panels.

I built a system before I understood the costs and how to properly size each component. I spent about $2500 to get a system that can safely provide about 600 watt hours a day. It consists of 3 x 90 watt & 2 x 80 watt "battery panels", a 30Amp PWM CC, 4 x 12v 50Ah AGM type batteries (wired in parallel), Xantrex 600watt pure sine wave inverter, combiner box with fuses, panel brackets, hand cart for batteries, wiring, fuses, connecters, etc. First I should have used 2 x 200 watt "grid tie" panels, a MPPT CC, and 2 x 6V 225Ah batteries. Going this way I would saved about $1000 and get a system that provides the same amount of watt hours. I should have just gone with a 2000watt quiet inverter type generator which would provide more power, easier to transport and cost less.

I now try to help people understand the costs and IMO foolishness thinking that a solar/battery system is cheap and a good idea for emergency power.

Here are some pictures of my "emergency power system". Don't do what I did.

PV Charge controller 1.jpg340 watts of pv panles.jpg200ah battery system.jpgPV Combiner box.jpgBehind PV panels.jpg

[Sunking]

The purpose of this thread is an idiot (myself) thinking out loud.

Not an idiot, just ignorant. You drank the Kool-Aid Don't think you are the only one, first, or last to come here. What you did do correctly is came here and ask questions first before buying anything. Most go out buy equipment then come here trying to figure out why it did not meet their expectations only to find out they made a huge costly mistake.

[mj52]

I'm already learning.

Our 3Kw generator is red and will supply 144W at 12V. I don't have the correct plug for the DC outlet so I'll take care of that when the sun comes up.

I'm also need to find out if I can power both AC and DC at the same time and how much of each?


This is a question that has always bothered me. Why do battery chargers use what appears to be standard lamp cord and chintzy/clumsy alligator clips on them but yet the 18" of jumper used between batteries look to be sturdy enough for a substation?

Use a stand alone battery charger and you got chintzy. Use your jumper cables and they seem like cable a welder would use.

Is it because 12V at 12A is small potatoes compared to trying to start a car with a dead battery. My battery charger has got to be 30+ years old and the leads do get warm but it has never let me down.

[thastinger]

Yeah, the lower the voltage the higher the amps have to be to get the same useful power. I.E. if you wanted 1000 watts (from an inverter and lets assume 100% efficiency for ease of explaination) from a 12V battery bank you would need cable capable of handling 83.3 amps, that's a big cable even on a short run. The same power from a 48V battery bank would need cable capable of only 20A.

[SunEagle]

I'm already learning.

Our 3Kw generator is red and will supply 144W at 12V. I don't have the correct plug for the DC outlet so I'll take care of that when the sun comes up.

I'm also need to find out if I can power both AC and DC at the same time and how much of each?


This is a question that has always bothered me. Why do battery chargers use what appears to be standard lamp cord and chintzy/clumsy alligator clips on them but yet the 18" of jumper used between batteries look to be sturdy enough for a substation?

Use a stand alone battery charger and you got chintzy. Use your jumper cables and they seem like cable a welder would use.

Is it because 12V at 12A is small potatoes compared to trying to start a car with a dead battery. My battery charger has got to be 30+ years old and the leads do get warm but it has never let me down.

Most of the small battery chargers are only rated 6amp or 2amp/10 amp. The wire does not have to be much bigger than #14 which is small. Some of the bigger chargers have an "engine start" feature which is supposed to produce up to 80amps for a very short duration so the wires are a little bigger but not intended to be used for long duration at that high amps level.

I believe some jumper cables have much larger wires because your using an alternator which can generate much higher amps and some people keep them connected to the old battery for a period of time to charge to charge it before they try to start the other engine. Go purchase a cheap set of jumper cables and you will find they are much smaller in size and can get warm during the jumping.

[Mike90250]

I got some jumper cables from "Horrible Fright", and while taking them apart for parts, discovered that in addition to the thin wires and fat insulation (Look at these big fat cables, they should start a locomotive) the wire inside was aluminum, not the best thing for a good, high power connection.