Getting a high amp 12v supply from my 24v battery bank.

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • Handmade Matt
    Member
    • Jul 2012
    • 85

    #1

    Getting a high amp 12v supply from my 24v battery bank.

    Hi everyone.
    I have a small off grid set up.
    480watts of PV with 300 to 400 ah of 24v battery bank (I can't remember the exact capacity, I could go and look it up if it's needed.)
    I run an inverter for most loads. (Laptops, monitor, blender and power tool chargers etc.)
    I also have a small 10amp DC - DC converter that produces 12volts for an LED lighting ring and a couple of 12v sockets.

    Someone recently gifted me a car audio amplifier with a subwoofer and two 6x9 inch speakers. The amp is made by Kenwood and has no markings about it's wattage and searching the model number online doesn't seem very fruitful. However based upon it's size and performance we assume that it is under 1000watts. So assuming it's 1000watts it will either pull 84amps or 42amps depending on whether one would use the supply voltage or the operating voltage for this calculation. (I'm unsure at this point which is relevant... Any comments welcome.)

    I want to run this audio from the system for occasional party use. (Day to day we have a lovely little efficient iPod dock.)

    My first attempt was to buy a 20amp DC - DC converter that produces 12v from 24volts. This works and the sound system is great.
    I knew however that this item was under rated at least by half if not a quater... For full audio performance it's obviously no good. It does work fine at reasonable volume levels though, any higher and the amp cuts in and out unable to get the power it wants.

    However, after about ten minutes of pumping dance music at a volume where it doesn't cut in and out this little 20amp converter is burning hot, really really hot and smells like burning.
    It's not a decent solution, it was cheap though and I am learning.
    (Going back to what I said above, is the amp rating of these units based upon the 12v or the 24v side? (I assume it's the lower, 20 amps at 12v, not 24v. Does what I'm asking make sense?)

    So what I want to know is, now I'm prepared to spend good money to get this working properly what's the best way to do it?

    My thoughts:
    1) Get a new 12v deep cycle battery exclusively for the sound system and somehow charge it from the 24v bank.
    2) Get a larger DC - DC converter that makes 12volts at 42 or 84 amps whichever it is that I need.
    3) Buy a high amp 12v DC mains power supply and power it through my inverter. (Inefficient though)
    4) Buy a new solar charge controller and make my main battery bank 12v (This is the least desirable and expensive because I would have to change my inverter as well.)

    Anything I've missed? Any ideas?
    Many thanks.
  • Mike90250
    Moderator
    • May 2009
    • 16020

    #2
    1) Get a new 12v deep cycle battery exclusively for the sound system and somehow charge it from the 24v bank.
    Almost, just use a decent 12V battery charger from your inverter. You need a battery charger for your car anyway, or for the cute neighbor across the street when her battery is dead.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

    Comment

    • Handmade Matt
      Member
      • Jul 2012
      • 85

      #3
      I have a really good multi stage 12v 18amp RV battery charger, that could work.
      I'd prefer an automated system though that is maintenance free.
      Additionally, inverting and transforming the power will all result in power loss... I believe this would be inefficient... Anyone?

      Comment

      • Mike90250
        Moderator
        • May 2009
        • 16020

        #4
        120VAC battery charger, while you are using the amp is the simple cheap way. The expensive way is the small Morningstar Sunsaver MPPT charge controller. It can connect to a 24V battery and charge a 12V with good precision and safety.

        Morningstar SunSaver MPPT-15L Solar Charge Controller
        Shop for clean energy and rooftop products at SolarTown.com Free Shipping on most items, big savings and expert customer support.
        Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
        || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
        || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

        solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
        gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

        Comment

        • Shockah
          Solar Fanatic
          • Nov 2013
          • 569

          #5
          Originally posted by Mike90250
          ..... The expensive way is the small Morningstar Sunsaver MPPT charge controller. It can connect to a 24V battery and charge a 12V with good precision and safety.

          Morningstar SunSaver MPPT-15L Solar Charge Controller
          http://www.solartown.com/store/produ...ge-controller/
          Simultaneously?

          Would that be (1) input from the panels and (2) outputs for the 24v and 12v?
          [CENTER]SunLight @ Night[/CENTER]

          Comment

          • Handmade Matt
            Member
            • Jul 2012
            • 85

            #6
            My current Steca charge controller supports both 24v and 12v but not at the same time.
            I'm pretty sure that'll also be the case with that one.

            So, in your opinion the cheapest way to do this would be to have a separate dedicated 12v battery for the sound system and manually charge it with an AC charger from my inverter?

            (I do have an old 110ah battery that I am experimenting with rejuvenating... This could be useful for experimenting with.)

            Comment

            • inetdog
              Super Moderator
              • May 2012
              • 9909

              #7
              Originally posted by Shockah
              Simultaneously?

              Would that be (1) input from the panels and (2) outputs for the 24v and 12v?
              More likely it would be 24 volts in from the 24 volt battery bank and 12+ volts out to charge the 12 volt battery.
              The charger will have only one output voltage at a time and you should not connect two MPPT charge controllers to the same panel array at the same time.
              SunnyBoy 3000 US, 18 BP Solar 175B panels.

              Comment

              • Mike90250
                Moderator
                • May 2009
                • 16020

                #8
                Originally posted by Mike90250
                120VAC battery charger, while you are using the amp is the simple cheap way. The expensive way is the small Morningstar Sunsaver MPPT charge controller. It can connect to a 24V battery and charge a 12V with good precision and safety.

                Morningstar SunSaver MPPT-15L Solar Charge Controller
                http://www.solartown.com/store/produ...ge-controller/
                Connect the MPPT input to the 24V battery bank, and it will safely charge a 12V battery for the stereo amp.

                Proper connection sequence for any charge controller (any modern one from major mfg that I know of)

                1) connect controller output to the battery bank to be charged. it will boot up and some will auto select proper voltage.

                2) connect the INPUT of the controller to the power source (PV panels, and sometimes a battery bank). Do not attempt to connect a PWM controller to a battery source, it will fry the fuse or pass transistor in an instant.
                Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
                || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
                || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

                solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
                gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

                Comment

                • SunEagle
                  Super Moderator
                  • Oct 2012
                  • 15179

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Mike90250
                  Connect the MPPT input to the 24V battery bank, and it will safely charge a 12V battery for the stereo amp.

                  Proper connection sequence for any charge controller (any modern one from major mfg that I know of)

                  1) connect controller output to the battery bank to be charged. it will boot up and some will auto select proper voltage.

                  2) connect the INPUT of the controller to the power source (PV panels, and sometimes a battery bank). Do not attempt to connect a PWM controller to a battery source, it will fry the fuse or pass transistor in an instant.
                  Mike

                  To make sure I understand your statement for # 2. Connecting a battery to the input terminals of a PWM CC will cause havoc to the circuitry. Is this because the amount of amperage the battery can supply?

                  Comment

                  • Mike90250
                    Moderator
                    • May 2009
                    • 16020

                    #10
                    Originally posted by SunEagle
                    Mike

                    To make sure I understand your statement for # 2. Connecting a battery to the input terminals of a PWM CC will cause havoc to the circuitry. Is this because the amount of amperage the battery can supply?
                    Yes. a battery can supply nearly unlimited amps (which is why many mechanics have a wrench or screwdriver with a big notch burned out of it - oops) and the PWM controller is expecting a current limited solar panel.

                    Most MPPT controllers actively regulate the current to a safe region for the controller.
                    Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
                    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
                    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

                    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
                    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

                    Comment

                    • inetdog
                      Super Moderator
                      • May 2012
                      • 9909

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Mike90250
                      Most MPPT controllers actively regulate the current to a safe region for the controller.
                      However, there is no guarantee that a no-name cheap controller which is labelled MPPT will do the same.
                      If it managed to survive, a PWM controller would also waste just as much power as it delivered. Not a good thing long term.
                      SunnyBoy 3000 US, 18 BP Solar 175B panels.

                      Comment

                      • Mike90250
                        Moderator
                        • May 2009
                        • 16020

                        #12
                        Originally posted by inetdog
                        However, there is no guarantee that a no-name cheap controller which is labelled MPPT will do the same. ....
                        That's why I specifically stated the Morningstar SunSaver MPPT-15L Solar Charge Controller which is allowed to operate as a battery - battery charger.
                        Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
                        || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
                        || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

                        solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
                        gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

                        Comment

                        Working...