Barn solar system (I'm very new to this)

[Naptown]

I agree. Especially if the pavement must be returned to perfect condition due to specific requirements. Some local codes really add to the cost of even a small job.

Local codes can be very expensive.
The county I live in has now required structural engineered wet stamped plans for every solar install including Hot water
This adds about $1000 to the cost to the consumer to have this done. On a small hot water system this is about 15%.
In 99% of the houses we work in it is unnecessary. I have put hundreds of systems out for structural engineering and 0 have come back as not working structurally.
I also work in DC where there are very old row homes where the roof framing can get questionable. (read really funky) On these I can agree to a sign off from an engineer. But 90% of what we work on has been built in the last 30 years and codes as far as roof structure have not changed that much as far as roof loading is concerned. A common sense approach is more in order.

[SunEagle]

Many utilities will connect street and parking lot lighting as unmetered items. They will also maintain and relamp the fixture as necessary.
This may be where the cost difference may have come in.
BTW in the volcanic soil and probably rock of Hawaii with asphalt cutting and patching $6000 doesn't seem bad at all as far as costs go.

I agree. Especially if the pavement must be returned to perfect condition due to specific requirements. Some local codes really add to the cost of even a small job.

[Naptown]

Many utilities will connect street and parking lot lighting as unmetered items. They will also maintain and relamp the fixture as necessary.
This may be where the cost difference may have come in.
BTW in the volcanic soil and probably rock of Hawaii with asphalt cutting and patching $6000 doesn't seem bad at all as far as costs go.

[FloridaSun]

Your assumption is incorrect.
$190 is for 230ah, FLA... daily discharge 20%.
(again, please know the true facts and don't base your conclusions on assumptions if you are going to berate me).

So you're guesstimating 25months,,, based on that:
$190 for batteries...
vs
$612 for utility (assuming HECO kwh rate remains the same)
^^^ NoBrainer there.

Never disagreed with you on the $6K quote for buried lines. I do disagree with your math. Your $612 saved is for two systems/batteries and also those batteries are only getting a 42W draw, not 100W each system.
42W x 12h x 365 x .35 = $65 annual grid cost per light.
That would almost pay for a battery every three years... assuming your high elect. rates and your low battery prices do not change.

[SunEagle]

This is Hawaii, buddy... land of the most expensive cost of living in the USA.
The $6000 quoted was to dig a trench thru an asphalt lot, plumb the conduit, repave the trench, code-wire the lights to the grid & mount junction boxes onto the posts. All the work above requires city permits and licensed contractors.

... and that doesn't include the cost of the lamp fixtures or the labor to install them.

Wow. I guess the cost of contract work is pretty high out there. Remind me not to go live in Hawaii. Nice place to visit but boy I couldn't afford to have any work done there.

[Shockah]

haha, I figgered that was not a complete description of your product. So after 24 months the customer is expected to pay two hundred for battery plus install when it fails, ok. What's the daily discharge % of that $190 (at today's price) battery? .... I'm thinking... $190 AGM... that's about 100Ah batt so you're daily discharging to 50%? Might last 25 months and then you get repeat biz. Might last much less and then... bet that's the last time you offer a two year guarantee.

SunEagle and I live in Florida where digging a trench is like playing in a sand box. Bout 8 years ago I hand dug about 250 foot, of 18+inch deep trench for a power line on this acre and it only took me a few days, the most work was going in around under some big tree roots.

Your assumption is incorrect.
$190 is for 230ah, FLA... daily discharge 20%.
(again, please know the true facts and don't base your conclusions on assumptions if you are going to berate me).

So you're guesstimating 25months,,, based on that:
$190 for batteries...
vs
$612 for utility (assuming HECO kwh rate remains the same)
^^^ NoBrainer there.

Yes, we've all played in sandboxes... but some people have moved on from that stage in life.
The property receiving the solar lights is a commercial property owned by a real estate investor.
He is not a DIYer... he does not play with shovels and buckets, and rather pay to have any improvements done properly, by licensed contractors, according to city code.

I'm sure you'll have a snappy reply to this...
but I am done defending the action of the contractor who quoted the $6000 and the property owner who received it.

Yeah, I'm cynical of some who compare apples an oranges or don't give complete facts. Getting the facts straight is something few salespeople do and I called you on that. Setting an example for others to avoid grid power for solar involves including ALL the facts. Small costs add up and future maintenance costs cannot be ignored in off grid solar. Solar economy is also very much based on geography, what works in Hawaii may be nonsense for the OP in Colorado. You are making a buck with your posts here?? Good luck on your future profits in real life.

You called me on it... and I answered... with facts... very transparently and with nothing to hide.
No scam here.

The root of your issue is clear: You obviously have allowed yourself to be burnt by a salesperson in the past,
and haven't healed from it.

You're right... we live in two very different worlds.
But does that give you the right to berate someone from a different demographic,
who posts facts about differences in cost?

FloridaSun I get your ultimate message... my opinion and experiences don't matter on this forum... because I live across the ocean.
Honestly, I have nothing to prove here. I was doing just fine a few days ago, before I found this forum.

Aaaaand I am sure you will have a snappy reply to this too, however I've said what I wanted to say, I am done with this thread, you can have the last word.

Now I must get on with my day... I have real life future profits to tend to.

[FloridaSun]

I warranty the batteries for 2 years... and then the replacement cost would be $190 per lamp when the time comes.

$306 annually is based correctly on the customer having to use a minimum 100W on-grid bulb, (200W x 12h x 365) and even at that, he wouldn't match the 3000Lumen of my Off-Grid 42W LED.
(if he opted for a costlier on-grid LED lamp assembly, then that would alter the KWH calculation)

haha, I figgered that was not a complete description of your product. So after 24 months the customer is expected to pay two hundred for battery plus install when it fails, ok. What's the daily discharge % of that $190 (at today's price) battery? .... I'm thinking... $190 AGM... that's about 100Ah batt so you're daily discharging to 50%? Might last 25 months and then you get repeat biz. Might last much less and then... bet that's the last time you offer a two year guarantee.

SunEagle and I live in Florida where digging a trench is like playing in a sand box. Bout 8 years ago I hand dug about 250 foot, of 18+inch deep trench for a power line on this acre and it only took me a few days, the most work was going in around under some big tree roots.

It's obvious some of you are cynical and boarder-line paranoid about someone possibly making a buck by posting facts.

Y'all need to lighten up and realize that you may have a salary day-job, and do Solar Panels for a hobby...
but some of us do Solar Panels for a living, and sometimes those "sales experiences" will arise on the forum.

If you're gonna accuse me of pan-handling and dishonesty, then at least make sure you got your facts straight....
or better yet, best I avoid it all and not post anymore.

Aloha.

Yeah, I'm cynical of some who compare apples an oranges or don't give complete facts. Getting the facts straight is something few salespeople do and I called you on that. Setting an example for others to avoid grid power for solar involves including ALL the facts. Small costs add up and future maintenance costs cannot be ignored in off grid solar. Solar economy is also very much based on geography, what works in Hawaii may be nonsense for the OP in Colorado. You are making a buck with your posts here?? Good luck on your future profits in real life.

[Shockah]

Nice (for you) sales pitch but not exactly honest....

It's obvious some of you are cynical and boarder-line paranoid about someone possibly making a buck by posting facts.

Y'all need to lighten up and realize that you may have a salary day-job, and do Solar Panels for a hobby...
but some of us do Solar Panels for a living, and sometimes those "sales experiences" will arise on the forum.

If you're gonna accuse me of pan-handling and dishonesty, then at least make sure you got your facts straight....
or better yet, best I avoid it all and not post anymore.

Aloha.

[Shockah]

Nice (for you) sales pitch but not exactly honest. You did not add the future cost and labor to replace batteries every few years and your customer would not be saving $306 annually on 2@ 42W fixtures. Grid at $0.35 Kwh would be more like $128 a year of elect. your system will provide. (84W x 12h x 365days)

If it were a sales pitch, I woulda added a link to the product... It was simply an example using a non-hypothetical situation.

I warranty the batteries for 2 years... and then the replacement cost would be $190 per lamp when the time comes.

$306 annually is based correctly on the customer having to use a minimum 100W on-grid bulb, (200W x 12h x 365) and even at that, he wouldn't match the 3000Lumen of my Off-Grid 42W LED.
(if he opted for a costlier on-grid LED lamp assembly, then that would alter the KWH calculation)

I don't know where that guy got his $6000 quote but unless the run is very long or on bedrock usually an underground power cable run is less than $10 per foot. Someone with a shed or barn that is 200 feet from their home will still save a lot of money going with an U/G power line than with an off grid battery system.

This is Hawaii, buddy... land of the most expensive cost of living in the USA.
The $6000 quoted was to dig a trench thru an asphalt lot, plumb the conduit, repave the trench, code-wire the lights to the grid & mount junction boxes onto the posts. All the work above requires city permits and licensed contractors.

... and that doesn't include the cost of the lamp fixtures or the labor to install them.

[FloridaSun]

^^^ Truth.

I just sold (2) 42Watt parking-lot night-lights for $1499 each... it will cost me a good fraction of that $3000 to build and install them.

However, the property owner was quoted $6000 to trench, cable and conduit grid-tied lights... not including the light fixtures which would burn at least 100Watts each.

Add the $306 annual utility charge onto that, and you'll see why in many situations, off-grid lighting pays for itself.

Nice (for you) sales pitch but not exactly honest. You did not add the future cost and labor to replace batteries every few years and your customer would not be saving $306 annually on 2@ 42W fixtures. Grid at $0.35 Kwh would be more like $128 a year of elect. your system will provide. (84W x 12h x 365days)

[SunEagle]

^^^ Truth.

I just sold (2) 42Watt parking-lot night-lights for $1499 each... it will cost me a good fraction of that $3000 to build and install them.

However, the property owner was quoted $6000 to trench, cable and conduit grid-tied lights... not including the light fixtures which would burn at least 100Watts each.

Add the $306 annual utility charge onto that, and you'll see why in many situations, off-grid lighting pays for itself.

I don't know where that guy got his $6000 quote but unless the run is very long or on bedrock usually an underground power cable run is less than $10 per foot. Someone with a shed or barn that is 200 feet from their home will still save a lot of money going with an U/G power line than with an off grid battery system.

[Shockah]

Even a small off grid system will cost more than $600.

^^^ Truth.

I just sold (2) 42Watt parking-lot night-lights for $1499 each... it will cost me a good fraction of that $3000 to build and install them.

However, the property owner was quoted $6000 to trench, cable and conduit grid-tied lights... not including the light fixtures which would burn at least 100Watts each.

Add the $306 annual utility charge onto that, and you'll see why in many situations, off-grid lighting pays for itself.

[Sunking]

I can run grid power out there with a little difficulty, but I was thinking that I have southern facing roofs on the garage and the barn, and it would be nice to get a little clean power out there. I figure that wiring the buildings to tie to the grid would cost me about $500 - $600 doing it myself.

Mac here is the answer you are looking for. It will cost you a few thousand dollars to do each barn with very limited power. Run grid power and call it done.

[PositiveDude2000]

Would it be in my interest to cover them with panels and tie to the grid? Would their be a return in my investment there?

http://www.dsireusa.org/

Check here this site out.

[SunEagle]

Thank you for the replies. I was exploring options, and apparently tieing on to the grid seems to be the way to go.

Another question since I have everyones attention =)

What about a grid tie system? My garage is about 30' long, and the barn is about 50'. Both have southern facing slopes on the roof. Would it be in my interest to cover them with panels and tie to the grid? Would their be a return in my investment there?

I know I have a lot of questions here. but I am trying to figure out a balance of green energy vs. coal power.

Grid tie systems have shown to have both short and long paybacks depending on where you live. There are many variables that need to be considered but probably the biggest is the cost of electricity. The higher the cost the better the payback.

If you are truly interested in a grid tie system I would suggest getting installation quotes from at least 6 different vendors. You can post the specific size, equipment type and costs on this website to get feedback on if they are good deals or not. Hope that helps you.