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  • Suggestions for use of 319V 100W Solar Panel?

    I have recently acquired a 100Watt 319VDC (429VOC) flexible solar panel which I would like to use on my boat. I may buy more of these panels if I can find an affordable way to use them

    The cost of high voltage MPPT controllers is prohibitively expensive with the Xantrex 80-600 at $1300 being the only one available that I know of....Therefore I was considering the following possiblities:

    1. Go through a 230VAC UPS (UK model). "AC", input is quoted as 230V "RMS". That means a (sine wave) peak value of 230 x 1.414 Volts which is approx 325Volts. AC enters the SMPS through a filter and is rectified (turned to DC) and that voltage (325-ish minus a couple of volts across the rectifier) is stored on a "reservoir" capacitor. An input of 325V "DC" would amount to the same thing. Although perhaps the 429VOC would be a bit too overwhelming for the UPS which is designed for 230VAC UK mains power?

    2. Use an invertor able to take this high dc voltage and convert to 230VAC UK mains voltage. Charge batteries from mains power. But is there a charge controller for the batteries which will run off of 230VAC?

    3. Find a switch mode power supply able to convert 320VDC to 48VDC. So far I have not found any at an affordable price.

    4.Cut the panels into 4 pieces and wire in parallel producing 80VDC. Use the cheaper 100V MPPT's.

    What would people suggest?

  • #2
    You WILL need a MPPT controller, or effectively neuter the panel to less than 100 watts. A conventional inverter will load the panel too much, and it's voltage will "collapse" and you get nothing at full sun. PV panels are CURRENT sources, and that makes a big difference.
    spreadsheet based voltage drop calculator:
    http://www.solar-guppy.com/download/...calculator.zip
    http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/showth...oss-calculator

    http://www.mike-burgess.org/PVinfo_2.html

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,
    battery lugs http://tinyurl.com/LMR-BigLug
    Setting up batteries http://tinyurl.com/LMR-NiFe

    gear :
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||

    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||

    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    Comment


    • #3
      do

      Originally posted by Mike90250 View Post
      effectively neuter the panel to less than 100 watts.
      What do you mean by ""neuter?

      Would cutting the panel into 4 pieces connected in parallel to produce 80VDC qualify as neutering? If so is the soldering of flexible amorphous cells as straightforward as regular cells?

      Are there problems associated with DIY flexible cell soldering?

      The 600VDC high voltage MPPT solution is just too pricey at $1300 plus shipping to the UK. Unless anyone knows of a less expensive one?
      Last edited by Geegrrl; 08-12-2013, 11:01 AM. Reason: added to reply

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Geegrrl View Post
        What do you mean by ""neuter?
        a) either find a PWM controller that can handle 300VDC without burning up (you loose 80% of the wattage this way, highly neutered)

        b) pry open the junction box, and hope you can access the panel interconnects, and tap into them

        Minute you take a knife to the backing and cut up the panel, you void the warranty, break the hermetic seal, and the death clock starts ticking on the panel.

        Best is to trade it off for some normal panels.

        You could possibly charge a 280V battery in the UPS, and get your AC from that. There may be a "crowbar" style regulator from a Wind Generator, that could operate in that voltage range to keep from overcharging the battery, if you cannot trade the panel for more normal ones, this would be your best hope. Something like 20ea, 20ah motorcycle batteries, might work, but what a pain to wire up and anchor down. And VERY dangerous voltages.
        Last edited by Mike90250; 08-12-2013, 11:32 AM.
        spreadsheet based voltage drop calculator:
        http://www.solar-guppy.com/download/...calculator.zip
        http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/showth...oss-calculator

        http://www.mike-burgess.org/PVinfo_2.html

        solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
        gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,
        battery lugs http://tinyurl.com/LMR-BigLug
        Setting up batteries http://tinyurl.com/LMR-NiFe

        gear :
        Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||

        || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||

        || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

        Comment


        • #5
          solar roll

          Originally posted by Geegrrl View Post
          I have recently acquired a 100Watt 319VDC (429VOC) flexible solar panel which I would like to use on my boat. I may buy more of these panels if I can find an affordable way to use them

          The cost of high voltage MPPT controllers is prohibitively expensive with the Xantrex 80-600 at $1300 being the only one available that I know of....Therefore I was considering the following possiblities:

          1. Go through a 230VAC UPS (UK model). "AC", input is quoted as 230V "RMS". That means a (sine wave) peak value of 230 x 1.414 Volts which is approx 325Volts. AC enters the SMPS through a filter and is rectified (turned to DC) and that voltage (325-ish minus a couple of volts across the rectifier) is stored on a "reservoir" capacitor. An input of 325V "DC" would amount to the same thing. Although perhaps the 429VOC would be a bit too overwhelming for the UPS which is designed for 230VAC UK mains power?

          2. Use an invertor able to take this high dc voltage and convert to 230VAC UK mains voltage. Charge batteries from mains power. But is there a charge controller for the batteries which will run off of 230VAC?

          3. Find a switch mode power supply able to convert 320VDC to 48VDC. So far I have not found any at an affordable price.

          4.Cut the panels into 4 pieces and wire in parallel producing 80VDC. Use the cheaper 100V MPPT's.

          What would people suggest?
          DC-DC 400W step down controller converter high voltage 319V to 12V is what i have just bought from ebay for my solar roll

          Comment


          • #6
            Maybe the op just missed the decimal point. I think a standard 24 V panel is being described. No high voltage conversion required.

            Edit: Never mind, I see that this is a real thing.
            Last edited by sensij; 03-17-2015, 12:24 PM. Reason: Edit - my bad
            CS6P-260P/SE3000 http://tiny.cc/ed5ozx

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by sensij View Post
              Maybe the op just missed the decimal point. I think a standard 24 V panel is being described. No high voltage conversion required.

              Edit: Never mind, I see that this is a real thing.
              Similar technology to the Uni-Solar panels. High voltage, low amps, low wattage.

              And the kicker is short life due to lack of cooling unless it is mounted on a flat piece of sheet metal raised above the roof so the back can be ventilated. Big expense for moderate output.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by sensij View Post
                Maybe the op just missed the decimal point. I think a standard 24 V panel is being described. No high voltage conversion required.

                Edit: Never mind, I see that this is a real thing.
                Completely useless product. Th edesign is made to use directly to high voltage GTI's, not intended for battery systems. Last thing you want is Thin Film panels. 5 years you will be replacing it.
                MSEE, PE

                Comment


                • #9
                  Hi,
                  I don't know if anyone is still interested, but I got one of these panels to use as a lightweight camping power supply charger, and needed to solve the high voltage problem. As I am a bit of an electronics geek and an embedded software writer I did that with DIY kit, ending up with an MPPT inverter which I built and programmed myself specifically for the panel. I could tell people about it, as well as the things I learned about what definitely will not work with this type of panel, if anyone is still interested?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Not a panel anyone, even pros would use. Just too dang dangerous. At 300 volts @ 100 watts is enough to kill you instantly. All it takes is walking go outside with the damn thing into sunlight and touch the wires. All is takes in 10 ma to kill you, and this panel generates 33 ma @ 300 volts. 300 volts is more than enough voltage to push 10 ma into a human body.

                    One good use you could try with your kids as punishment is to connect one lead to one ear, and the other lead to another ear. 30 ma through the brain would not kill you, but give you one good attitude adjustment. But 30 ma through the heart is instant death and untraceable. Perfect tool for a murder.
                    Last edited by Sunking; 03-02-2016, 04:01 PM.
                    MSEE, PE

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Geegrrl View Post
                      What would people suggest?
                      Get another panel. 300 volts on a boat deck? Yikes.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Evanspatrick View Post
                        Hi,
                        I don't know if anyone is still interested, but I got one of these panels to use as a lightweight camping power supply charger, and needed to solve the high voltage problem. As I am a bit of an electronics geek and an embedded software writer I did that with DIY kit, ending up with an MPPT inverter which I built and programmed myself specifically for the panel. I could tell people about it, as well as the things I learned about what definitely will not work with this type of panel, if anyone is still interested?
                        I just bought 2 of these to use as a base camp set up in the jungle to trickle charge a small 45amp car battery.

                        They came with an inverter to convert to 14.4v, which I put in a box with a 15amp mppt charge controller so I could keep everything neat and tidy. I am fairly inexperienced in solar having only had a simple 5w unisolar panel for the past few years but it was enough for my purposes in the forest. Now i need more power, but these things are a little bit scary at 319v.

                        Can anyone advise me on wiring these up? As the voltage is so high and the amps so low coming out of the panels, I believe I can use a very small cable to reach the inverter.
                        I am in Cambodia and am having trouble finding anyone who really knows what they are doing, but from what I understand even 1mm cable would be overkill.

                        4.5m from the end of each panel to the inverter so my calculation was 9m x 0.39 amps x 0.017 = 0.06v, which is nowhere near even 1% loss

                        Locals have suggested anything from 4mm to what I can only describe as ultra cheap 'bell wire'.

                        Would anyone be kind enough to tell what is correct? Can I really get away with 1mm cable?


                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Hive voltage brings the benefit of low amps (small wire) - look at the high voltage cross country transmission lines.

                          HOWEVER at 300+ Volts, you have to use an EXPENSIVE $800 MPPT controller that can accept that high voltage, and convert that down to a usable 12V.

                          I would suggest you trade those HV panels for something more normal.

                          You described an inverter that lowers the voltage to 14v for charging the battery. if you can tell us the model # and any info about that, it would be helpful.
                          spreadsheet based voltage drop calculator:
                          http://www.solar-guppy.com/download/...calculator.zip
                          http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/showth...oss-calculator

                          http://www.mike-burgess.org/PVinfo_2.html

                          solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
                          gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,
                          battery lugs http://tinyurl.com/LMR-BigLug
                          Setting up batteries http://tinyurl.com/LMR-NiFe

                          gear :
                          Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||

                          || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||

                          || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Geegrrl View Post
                            I have recently acquired a 100Watt 319VDC (429VOC) flexible solar panel which I would like to use on my boat. I may buy more of these panels if I can find an affordable way to use them

                            The cost of high voltage MPPT controllers is prohibitively expensive with the Xantrex 80-600 at $1300 being the only one available that I know of....Therefore I was considering the following possiblities:

                            1. Go through a 230VAC UPS (UK model). "AC", input is quoted as 230V "RMS". That means a (sine wave) peak value of 230 x 1.414 Volts which is approx 325Volts. AC enters the SMPS through a filter and is rectified (turned to DC) and that voltage (325-ish minus a couple of volts across the rectifier) is stored on a "reservoir" capacitor. An input of 325V "DC" would amount to the same thing. Although perhaps the 429VOC would be a bit too overwhelming for the UPS which is designed for 230VAC UK mains power?

                            2. Use an invertor able to take this high dc voltage and convert to 230VAC UK mains voltage. Charge batteries from mains power. But is there a charge controller for the batteries which will run off of 230VAC?

                            3. Find a switch mode power supply able to convert 320VDC to 48VDC. So far I have not found any at an affordable price.

                            4.Cut the panels into 4 pieces and wire in parallel producing 80VDC. Use the cheaper 100V MPPT's.

                            What would people suggest?
                            That is alot of work and expense to just be able to run a small light bulb and charge a cell phone. If you are just experimenting and have low expectaions that is okay, if you really need power on your boat I hope you realize that you need different panels.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Mike90250 View Post
                              Hive voltage brings the benefit of low amps (small wire) - look at the high voltage cross country transmission lines.

                              HOWEVER at 300+ Volts, you have to use an EXPENSIVE $800 MPPT controller that can accept that high voltage, and convert that down to a usable 12V.

                              I would suggest you trade those HV panels for something more normal.

                              You described an inverter that lowers the voltage to 14v for charging the battery. if you can tell us the model # and any info about that, it would be helpful.
                              It came with the panels from Germany and has no brand name on it. The shop said it would convert the voltage down to 14.5v 13.4a and the instructions with it (its headed "Solar Converter KR1212C") says to simply input from the panels and output to my charge controller (Victron energy MPPT 75/15 15a)
                              I have to get this all on a motorbike and bounce it around the jungle and this is the only realistic solution I can see for the price. All in, the panels and charge controller cost me USD 450. There are small foldup thin film ones with similar power but they are an insane $2,000

                              Comment

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