EVERY Ni-Fe battery ever made uses Nickel Plating

[Iron Bran]

Some folks have said that new Nickel Iron batteries are inferior because they are nickel plated. In fact, every battery that has been built since 1924 has used nickel plating.

Please see attached, pages 14 on.

[Mike90250]

Thanks, I'll give it a read.

Bummer on page 35, after 300 cycles, test the electrolyte to see if it needs replacement. That's going to be an issue with batteries that weigh 80lbs each.... hard to pick up and shake 2 gallons of electrolyte out.

And nary a word about charge efficiency, I guess mains power was dirt cheap !

[inetdog]

Thanks, I'll give it a read.

Bummer on page 35, after 300 cycles, test the electrolyte to see if it needs replacement. That's going to be an issue with batteries that weigh 80lbs each.... hard to pick up and shake 2 gallons of electrolyte out.

And nary a word about charge efficiency, I guess mains power was dirt cheap !

1. In the interest of safety, let's get this right. Pour half the electrolyte out, then with the battery upright again, shake vigorously (maybe build a small shaking table?), then pour the remaining electrolyte out! And hopefully with your magic caps you will get 600, or 900 or 1200 cycles or more. Just check that often.

2. Either it was dirt cheap or Edison sold it to you?

[Iron Bran]

Battery test data for you to calculate efficiency

Thanks, I'll give it a read.

Bummer on page 35, after 300 cycles, test the electrolyte to see if it needs replacement. That's going to be an issue with batteries that weigh 80lbs each.... hard to pick up and shake 2 gallons of electrolyte out.

And nary a word about charge efficiency, I guess mains power was dirt cheap !

Would some lab data help? Here is NREL test data on the 700 Ah cell.

In every test, the cells were charged with a constant current at the C/5 rate. The cells were then discharged at the C/5, C/10, and C/20 rates.

This was a test to confirm battery capacity, not to test for efficiency. The important column is the Amp hours that count up as the battery is charged and count down as the battery is discharged.

Hypothetically, you can calculate efficiency by dividing Ah out / Ah in. The way the Ah counter accumulates data in the spreadsheet changes when you go from C/5 and C/10 to C/20. That is, C/20 data counts up and down in a different manner. Let me know if you have any questions.

The 700Ah cell's test results can be found here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/w40rwhhxm1...0Ah20DegC.xlsxNREL Thermal Chambers.jpg

[Iron Bran]

Capacity and Efficiency calculations

Here are the results that I have compiled.

Iron Edison 700 Ah Ni-Fe Capacity and Eff Data.jpg

Would some lab data help? Here is NREL test data on the 700 Ah cell.

In every test, the cells were charged with a constant current at the C/5 rate. The cells were then discharged at the C/5, C/10, and C/20 rates.

This was a test to confirm battery capacity, not to test for efficiency. The important column is the Amp hours that count up as the battery is charged and count down as the battery is discharged.

Hypothetically, you can calculate efficiency by dividing Ah out / Ah in. The way the Ah counter accumulates data in the spreadsheet changes when you go from C/5 and C/10 to C/20. That is, C/20 data counts up and down in a different manner. Let me know if you have any questions.

The 700Ah cell's test results can be found here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/w40rwhhxm1...0Ah20DegC.xlsx[ATTACH=CONFIG]2291[/ATTACH]

[Sundetective]

Chinese Ni-Fe Batteries ... LOW in Nickel ... High in cheap Iron

Had to ask 'The KW Kid' to ride in and straighten this thread out

You see Edison talked about his Positive Electrodes for many years (certified in writing) but the vast majority of all
Edison Ni-Fe batteries were composed of a Cobalt / Nickel alloy or a Nickel / Cobalt / Whatever ? blend.
It's a very long and detailed story.

So is the Negative Electrodes story which were also a Blend of Metals including Mercury.

Not a whole lot has changed.

The Changhong Batteries from China that John Mario D'Angelo and Brandon Williams act like they know about
are also a blend of metals but they bumped the cheap Iron up to 60%.
They claim the Nickle is now at 20%.

<snip>

"The respective percentage contents of nickel and iron are 20% and 60%."

Does this mean that the Cobalt and Copper are at 20% ??

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

<snip>

4. CHEMICAL COMPOSITION
SUBSTANCES CLASSIFICATION
CHEMICAL INGREDIENTS
QUANTITY

Metals
Fe、Ni、Co 、Cu ... 60%～70%

Plastics
PA /ABS/PVC/PE ... 5%～10%

others
KOH、LiOH、H2O ... 15%～30%

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. PRODUCT DESCRIPTION

Product Description: Industrial Nickel-Iron (NiFe) Rechargeable Battery Product Model: TN, NF-S Standard designation:
In accordance with China National Standard/ Company Standard. Positive electrode: Nickel hydroxide Negative electrode: Iron hydroxide Electrolyte: Potassium hydroxide solution.

The respective percentage contents of nickel and iron are 20% and 60%.

Electrochemistry reaction formula: 2Ni(OH)2 + Fe(OH)2 = 2β-NiOOH+Fe+2H2O Nominal voltage: 1.2Volts

<end of snip>

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is ALL taken directly from the Changhong Batteries website in China.
Right now!

It's always a fight going up against 'a veneer of knowledge with the Ni-Fe subject' because you just can't sound bite the badboy.

We have been living with this same problem since Mr. Edison began backing off the Ni-Fe subject
starting very shortly after the 1924 date being used which is a jive date.

That brochure / book was made up by employees and is not signed by Mr. Edison OR signed by his
Chief Engineer. I prefer signed statements.

Next time we can get into how they are using the Cobalt and Copper. The Nickel TODAY could easily be something like a
20/17 blend with Cobalt. Or 20/15. Or whatever.

At times the Nickel was just a fairly small percentage of the ALLOY PLATING with Mr. Edison.
It goes on and on.

It would be more fun if "The Nickel Iron Battery Experts" would confront Old Bill and discuss the facts
about Ni-Fe a little instead of ..... well you know how they run.

The 'carbonated NiFe issues' were always just a shill to keep you from seeing the REAL Problem that
dominated Mr. Edison starting very early in the Ni-Fe game. Certified by 1904.

All the talk of testing for carbonates is jive and mute according to His Excellency, Thomas A.
The dissolved metals including the dissolved Iron
contaminates the Positive Electrodes and the Ni-Fe batteries self destruct in time.

So anytime that you can afford the time and money is a good time to get rid of the old electrolyte
and start again. Look at the advice from the Edison Battery Company on their Ni-Fe Cells in Auto's.
Change it Every Year - OR LESS. Give it a break already.



Bill Blake