carbonated NiFe issues

[Guest]

JD, I'm ready to hang the Carbonate problem up for a while and move on but always remember what I said.
What I say can be backed up in writing. In all fairness before saying that I go on and on about next to nothing let's see you put
Your NEW Guarantee as of August 1st up for the gang.

The one you sent me and I proofed it for you.

People will be able to see who is also $ worried $ about the carbonate problem - real quick like.

That 2009 NiFe Man who went through all the changes over the (40) 500 Amp Hour Cells said that he spoke with a few NiFe Battery
manufacturer's overseas including Changhong. This was during his Internet rampage.
He claimed that the Pro's told him the new Lighter, Thinner, more Fragile clear plastic cases brought the Cell weight down.

Old BB figures this tidbit along with an understanding of Oxygen, Carbon Dioxide and other gas transmissibility is probably just another

New Factor to the New Chinese Perfect Storm of Carbonate Problems. BB has foretold you may become an innocent victim of that storm.

As with other fellows we heard about his NiFe Cells coming. Then you may hear about the trials and tribulations connected to the
delivery problems and questions as to who has the Lithium Hydroxide for sale and what have you.
Then they normally drop the NiFe subject and disappear or just clam-up.

New Thread.


BB

Good, lets put the Carbonate issue this to rest for now, but I doubt you can. Once you come up with some ACTUAL facts of carbonate problems in electrolyte then post them, but until then don't get people all riled up with what ever the Chinese may say in some of their manuals. As I have pointed out, and you don't seem to acknowledge, is that actual field experience does not seem to match what they say. One thing you have not pointed out is that when the cell electrolyte reaches 50/g/liter then the electrolyte should be changed. The only way I know you can only find that out through titration.

The new warranty will be updated in the V 1.7 manual due to be completed early next week.

I guess you did not read my post very well, I said that the guy in 2009 receievd PP cases and NOT the clear plastic cases. The issue was not the material but the PHYSICAL case size. I hope you get it this time! How do you know who he spoke with?

You may be right about "being an inocent victim of that storm" but I have pointed out why I am not to worried - i.e. Chinese cells being manufactuered for over 25 years and the original Edison cells being manufactured for over 84 years with no "horror tales" of carbonate issues that I have yet to uncover since I have been educating myself about the nickel iron battery and have had personal experience with both the new and old cells.

Who knows how long Mike will keep posting his experiences with his nickel iron battery bank. As with anything people get "new", that "newness wears" off.

JD

[Mike90250]

.....

There have been one or two cells that go negative when they are deep cycled (below 350 Ah or so) so we suspect it may be time to change electrolyte again. Most of the cells are in good shape, it is just the one or two cells that seem to be weak. If the reader knows anything about cells put in series once a cells goes bad or has lower capacity than the rest of the cells in series that one cells can drag down the whole battery bank. So it is important to test INDIVIDUAL cells in ANY battery bank that has a series connection. We advise our customers to label each cell and keep a history of the cells and test them at least once a year and especially if you seem to have a lower battery capacity than before.....

Cells that go negative would indicate some sort of damage, or manufacturing mishap. I'd expect to see the cells of a lot to be fairly close -+ 5% in all the cells, so I'd not expect any reversals to happen till +- 25Ah of the 500Ah mark.

Regarding carbonation, series cells in the same room, should experience the same conditions, and if something poisoned one, I'd expect the same to happen to the others. No reason for one out of 40 to get poisoned.

So, when you say to test individual cells, are you meaning a voltage test, or a carbonation test? And is there any DIY carbonation tests, or will samples have to be sent to a lab?

And after investing in the batteries, I will surely be sharing my results.

[Sundetective]

Good, lets put the Carbonate issue this to rest for now, but I doubt you can. Once you come up with some ACTUAL facts of carbonate problems in electrolyte then post them, but until then don't get people all riled up with what ever the Chinese may say in some of their manuals. As I have pointed out, and you don't seem to acknowledge, is that actual field experience does not seem to match what they say. One thing you have not pointed out is that when the cell electrolyte reaches 50/g/liter then the electrolyte should be changed. The only way I know you can only find that out through titration.

The new warranty will be updated in the V 1.7 manual due to be completed early next week.

I guess you did not read my post very well, I said that the guy in 2009 receievd PP cases and NOT the clear plastic cases. The issue was not the material but the PHYSICAL case size. I hope you get it this time! How do you know who he spoke with?

You may be right about "being an inocent victim of that storm" but I have pointed out why I am not to worried - i.e. Chinese cells being manufactuered for over 25 years and the original Edison cells being manufactured for over 84 years with no "horror tales" of carbonate issues that I have yet to uncover since I have been educating myself about the nickel iron battery and have had personal experience with both the new and old cells.

Who knows how long Mike will keep posting his experiences with his nickel iron battery bank. As with anything people get "new", that "newness wears" off.

JD

JD, I have Your New Guarantee right NOW.

Your right about the PP cases in 2009. I got to thinking about that whole matter and I had questions answered earlier this evening.
Then took a nice nap.
I know a fellow that Tracks ANY Internet accounts of Any year involving the accounts of NiFe batteries.
He sent me a condensation of that WILD 2009 incident which I have tried to keep clean here since it opened up into such a he said, she said
carnage of Nasty accusations between the 2009 NiFe Man, You (John D'Angelo at BeUtilityFree, Inc.) and Brandon Williams who claimed to be your Sales manager at the time. Now he is at IronEdison Battery Company.

The old King and the new Jumping Jack Flash of Chinese NiFe Batteries in America along with 2009 NiFe Man doing Serious Battle
in RipOff Reports.

The Changhong Instruction Manual that I know of (at that time) listed ALL (100%) PP Cases for the TN Series.

There was NO TN500 in that manual (skipped from 400 to 600)
but the TN400 matched up with the 42 pound Cell weight perfectly that the 2009 NiFe Man cried about from Coast to Coast and into Key Largo
(PLUS CHINA) since he had paid another $4000 (List price) for the TN500 Series but swears he didn't get his proper booty.

Other Changhong Documents will List Cell Weight as (filled kg) along with Electrolyte Volume in Liters BUT we do have the empty weights
in the Official Operators Manual (the devils).

The Reservoir Size can change GREATLY from one model to the next (sometimes Out of Proportion) and this fact will enter into a persons
Electrolyte Management Strategy when Mike gets around to it since not a single Swinging D in History has supplied the data needed
to make such decisions yet.

I asked my main man (retired now) to run a scan on the '2009 NiFe Man' file. I figured you (J D) might catch the lack of a proper explanation
of what was said and then force me into a detailed explanation on the plastic cases.
So I was waiting on you and ready for Freddy

It seems the Chinese may have Saved Weight on the Plastic Cases BEFORE this latest drive into the clear MBS Plastic
(polymethacrylate butadiene stryrene) which you claim, in writing, is not as strong as the older PP (polypropylene) cases. (the devils)

The 2009 NiFe Man in his Own Exact words. What heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee was Talkin about.


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May 14, 2009

More on the Chinese NiFe saga. Ever tried to deal with the BBB when you've been screwed, glued and tattooed? Now we have the DMA
(direct marketing Association). They slap the BBB logo on their complaint form but the BBB won't accept the DMA form. WTF?
So the battery company guy says,

"The reason the NiFe cells don't weigh what they should is that the cases used to be acrylic and now they are polycarbonate."
"We sent you the right battery it just weighs 42 pounds empty versus the 49 pounds on our published specifications;
weight of a cell isn't important and you should be happy your shipping charges are lower".

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He may have had a 'Lost' Changhong Document with that TN500 info. All the main man has for me is the Manual with the 42 pounds
Dry weight info and another Document (around that time ?) on the TNG Series, the TNZ Series and the TN Series with no actual printed date.
They used Filled Cell weights in that one.

The TN800 held about 4 times as much go-go juice as the TN400 back then.
With the new NF-S series that Reservoir Gulf has been narrowed to 5.9 Liters (400) versus 17.2 Liters (800)
which is a tad less than 3 to 1 now.

The ability to dissipate Heat from the Electrolyte in Volume AND Surface Area is what BB is talkinnnnnnnnnnnnnn about.
Salespeople don't notice such things. BB do.


Thanks, BB