Nickel Iron vs. Lead Acid - Off Grid battery debate

[Sunking]

For the short sighted out there: LA batteries are cheaper at start up, but with a life expectancy of about a 1/4 of Nife .

You are busted again making false statements. Attached is Chongqing Solar PV Battery Brochure. Go to page 12 of 22 and look at the cycle life chart. It is not as good as a Rolls 5000 series battery at 1/5th the cost of NiFe

[russ]

Doing research on the net does not replace experience.

[russ]

A pdf link left by msaine before he departed.

The agenda of the authors is unknown - therefor the accuracy is equally unknown - may be first class info or may be garbage.

Russ

http://www.nickel-iron-battery.com/Edison%20Cell%20Rejuvenation%2085%20yr-old%2013.%20DeMar.pdf

[Sundetective]

KOH is very dangerous stuff. Here is the MSDS sheet straight from Chungqing who makes and ships with the NiFe battery. It carries Haz Mat class of 8.2, exact same class as sulfuric acid which is 8.1

CLASS 8 - caustic and corrosive substances that cause damage to the skin, eye mucosa and respiratory tracks, corrosion of metals and damage to transportation means, structures or cargo. These substances may cause a fire when interacting with organic materials or some chemical substances;

• sub-class 8.1 - acids,
• sub-class 8.2 - alkalis;
• sub-class 8.3 - various caustic and corrosive substances.

In this Rip Off Report the two Changhong Nickel Iron Battery dealers
go out of their way to point out (and verify) just how

dangerous and deadly the Nickel Iron Battery (Ni-Fe) Electrolyte can really be.

<snip>

Search results Ripoff Report | BEUTILITYFREE John D'Angelo | Complaint ...
BEUTILITYFREE John D'Angelo off grid NiFe chinese cells, $15000, bait & switch ...

Brandon Williams worked for our company as an INDEPENDENT sales rep and has represented ...
https://www.ripoffreport.com/...john...o-of-f52bd.htm - Cached

http://www.ripoffreport.com/builders-contractors/beutilityfree-john-d/beutilityfree-john-d-angelo-of-f52bd.htm

<snip>

BEUTILITYFREE-John-D-Angelo | Ripoff Report | Complaints ...
BEUTILITYFREE-John-D-Angelo Directory. These Ripoff ... for CPSC Violations Inc.,,

Beware of Brandon Williams!, Addressing customers original post allegations, John D'Angelo ...


I feel people will also get an idea about the types of people involved in that business
and the shame that has been brought down on the Changhong Batteries Company
by failing to keep their house in a good and clean order.

John Mario D'Angelo did another prison sentence over related chemicals
(while claiming the years as Ni-Fe battery sales experience)
and
Brandon Williams has been hurting a lot of people making impossible, wild
Ni-Fe battery claims to take peoples money
even though Changhong tries to warn people. They seem to want solid business but go unheard.

This seems strange since they are the people actually building the Ni-Fe batteries.


Bill Blake

[msaine]

A pdf link left by msaine before he departed.

The agenda of the authors is unknown - therefor the accuracy is equally unknown - may be first class info or may be garbage.

Russ

http://www.nickel-iron-battery.com/E...3.%20DeMar.pdf

Where did I depart to?

[russ]

Where did I depart to?

Thought I hit the ban button - guess I didn't - next time an argument starts then.

[Mike90250]

Well, I'm sort of in the deep end here, with a large beutilityfree bank. I'll shortly be ordering the "carbonate test kit" and then I'll know if the fancy flip caps keep out the Co2, or if I have to change out electrolyte. They (and the solar) have been running the construction site full time, and charging the scissor lift weekends and afternoons. The breakers in the sub panel trip sometimes, as the compressor and saws start up, but the XW-6048 inverter has not glitched at all. There is hope now, that the plethora of GFI and ARC Fault Interrupters won't fault the XW, if all the contractors gear has not.
This has cycled my battery bank several times, when they leave the lift charging overnight, and it takes 2 days for the solar to bring the bank back up to full, so I have no doubt the "plates" are fully formed now.

The XW inverter and the Morningstar MPPT-60, can be programmed to completely and efficiently charge the batteries, and when I add the 2nd PV array, I'm sure that the Midnight line will be as flexible.

And I just have the mystery of why I'm using a lot of water in the batteries, with only a 20 minute absorb. I hope it's not Co2'd !

gear :
Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV || || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

[inetdog]

Well, I'm sort of in the deep end here, with a large beutilityfree bank.

The XW inverter and the Morningstar MPPT-60, can be programmed to completely and efficiently charge the batteries, and when I add the 2nd PV array, I'm sure that the Midnight line will be as flexible.

And I just have the mystery of why I'm using a lot of water in the batteries, with only a 20 minute absorb. I hope it's not Co2'd !

gear :
Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV || || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

Thanks for the update Mike!

Did you have to do anything special to adapt the inverter to the larger voltage difference between fully charged and LCO on the NiFe batteries?

[Mike90250]

Thanks for the update Mike!

Did you have to do anything special to adapt the inverter to the larger voltage difference between fully charged and LCO on the NiFe batteries?

on both the inverter and charger, I had to change the setpoints, and am still withing the factory specs. With the higher end gear, it's much more flexible than the costco specials.

[Sundetective]

Well, I'm sort of in the deep end here, with a large beutilityfree bank. I'll shortly be ordering the "carbonate test kit" and then I'll know if the fancy flip caps keep out the Co2, or if I have to change out electrolyte. They (and the solar) have been running the construction site full time, and charging the scissor lift weekends and afternoons. The breakers in the sub panel trip sometimes, as the compressor and saws start up, but the XW-6048 inverter has not glitched at all. There is hope now, that the plethora of GFI and ARC Fault Interrupters won't fault the XW, if all the contractors gear has not.
This has cycled my battery bank several times, when they leave the lift charging overnight, and it takes 2 days for the solar to bring the bank back up to full, so I have no doubt the "plates" are fully formed now.

The XW inverter and the Morningstar MPPT-60, can be programmed to completely and efficiently charge the batteries, and when I add the 2nd PV array, I'm sure that the Midnight line will be as flexible.

And I just have the mystery of why I'm using a lot of water in the batteries, with only a 20 minute absorb. I hope it's not Co2'd !

gear :
Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV || || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

Mike,

When it comes to charging your Ni-Fe batteries I know you have listened to Ni-Fe Salesman here in America
and you read and listened to Ni-Fe Sales literature from Changhong Batteries in China.

I always wondered. Did you ever Listen to the actual Tech guys that work with the Ni-Fe batteries in China?


Bill Blake

[Mike90250]

Mike,

.... I always wondered. Did you ever Listen to the actual Tech guys that work with the Ni-Fe batteries in China?

No, do you have a link to their comments, or can you paraphrase them here? Yesterday and today, added another 23 gallons to the bank to bring them up to the Full mark again.

[Sundetective]

No, do you have a link to their comments, or can you paraphrase them here? Yesterday and today, added another 23 gallons to the bank to bring them up to the Full mark again.

Mike,

I tried that before. It got striped down which was a big surprise to me.

Just let it be a Lesson to me.


'Changhong Tech Support Speaks Softly - The Ni-Fe Sleeping Dragon'

http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/showthread.php?7133-Changhong-Tech-Support-Speaks-Softly-The-Ni-Fe-Sleeping-Dragon

Bill Blake

[inetdog]

No, do you have a link to their comments, or can you paraphrase them here? Yesterday and today, added another 23 gallons to the bank to bring them up to the Full mark again.

Hi Mike,

Looking at the Changhong site, I see that they now (not sure how long ago introduced?) offer their Series NF-S cells supposedly optimized for Solar PV. The first thing I noticed about the description is that they rate the AmpHour capacity at the 120 hour rate!!. (I guess that almost make sense when planning at a 3-4 day autonomy size.)
The second thing that caught my eye was that they claim that the wide separation between plates and excess electrolyte in this series promotes recombination of the H2 and 02. (I am not sure how that can actually happen without a catalyst!)

What Changhong cell models are you using? (I apologize for not digging back through the threads if you mentioned it earlier.)

[Sunking]

Bill you don't happen to live in or around Norman OK?

[Sundetective]

Bill you don't happen to live in or around Norman OK?

No Dereck that's not me or the KW Kid as far as I know.
Close as I get is a wild girlfriend named Norma long ago.
She was South of Pittsburgh. One of the fun but hazy years of old.
I lived out in the middle of no-where on a 3,000 acre heirship.
A few miles to any civilization but we had free natural gas and electric all day long.
100 pound bags of potatoes were $3 at the local store.
We used a generator and batteries on projects in the woods and added just a tad of water
once or twice per year. Ran the batteries into the ground and didn't worry about it.


Bill Blake