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10000 cycles @ 80% DoD ??

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  • 10000 cycles @ 80% DoD ??

    Anyone familiar with these batteries?
    Attached Files

  • #2
    Some pretty bold claims. If anyone is going to be around in 10 years, LG is a major player , with lots of household appliances, not just a solar battery niche market

    Now you need to get and read the fine print in the warranty, and see what you have to do to keep the warranty valid. Yearly inspections by a dealer ? only use their BMS ? Connect to their cloud for monitoring ?
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A



    • #3
      Without reading through all the attachment, I'd note the usual and cover all seller caveat of "up to" on the 10,000 cycle @ 80 % DoD claim. I'd also assume meticulous and verifiable/certified records would be required for what's probably a prorated compensation. As Mike notes, read/comb through the warranty and do so from the seller's perspective and mind set.


      • #4
        Originally posted by GeorgeF View Post
        Anyone familiar with these batteries?
        They have several versions. I know several people who have installed the 400 volt with Solaredge Storedge systems. Those are DC coupled. Outback has certified the 48 volt version for use with a Skybox. In that case the CANBUS communication is enabled. I believe LG Chem is one of the largest manufacturers of Lithium batteries in the world. The operative word is believe because it depends on how you measure large. We had a debate on another thread about that and I also believe Sunkist thinks they are better than any of the Chinese manufacturers. They are an OEM battery supplier to several EV manufacturers.
        Internally they have a BMS that manages the SOC percentage and that is how they can make those claims. They also mention and additional BMS that would allow you to paralell another battery if you needed more kWh capacity in a few years.
        I looked into buying one for my Skybox but figured I could DIY one with prismatics a lot less expensively since I already had a BMS.
        I agree with earlier posters that one would need to understand the terms of the warranty.
        9 kW solar. Driving EVs since 2012


        • #5
          In most cases, homes with an RESU battery will charge and drain the battery every day. The RESU comes with a 10-year warranty. LG Chem guarantees that the battery will maintain at least 60 percent of its capacity to hold a charge during that time period. LG Chem also offers an energy throughput warranty – the 60 percent retained capacity after 10 years is only valid if the total energy throughput over the 10 year period is less than 22.4 megawatt-hours (MWh). Summed up, your LG Chem RESU battery is warrantied to retain at least 60 percent of its capacity by the time you hit a lifetime of 10 years or an energy throughput of 22.4 MWh, whichever happens first.


          • #6
            If my math is correct and the battery dies after 22 mWhrs then the approximate cost of that battery ($7,000 divided by 22 mWhrs) is $0.32 per kWhr. That is worse case.
            9 kW solar. Driving EVs since 2012


            • #7
              LG Chem makes both the Chevy Volt and Chevy BOLT batteries as well as (I believe) the batteries for the Jaguar EV. They are among the best batteries in the world, and I believe they are the best.
              I used Chevy Volt batteries in my off-grid solar setup for a while and am now using Chevy Bolt cells.

              There are a lot of proprietary secrets in the lithium battery world, so with that in mind, information and specifications are frequently difficult to come by. That said, real world information when the batteries are put to use is pretty easy.

              Chevy Volt's (PHEV) have a reputation for battery longevity and we are just now getting some data on the Chevy Bolts (BEV). There are Chevy Volts with 200k to 300k miles on them running all over the place, and even a few stories about 400k. And now, we're seeing youtube videos showing Chevy Bolt vehicles with only 7% or 8% degradation after 100,000 miles on them by owners who say they run the cars long and hard.

              Another consideration, and this applies to all lithium ion batteries, is the charge and discharge profiles. Lithium batteries basically have three enemies that contribute to their life expectancy. The first, and probably the most significant, is temperature. Lithium batteries do not like to be run hot. High temperatures increase the rate of parasitic reactions during all phases of battery function. It is these parasitic reactions that are the cause of battery degradation and failure. The cooler the battery, the longer it will last during charging, discharging and even storage. Want to keep your lithium flashlight batteries in good shape when not in use? Put them in your refrigerator.. seriously.

              The second thing that kills them is charging. Parasitic reactions speed up when charging. Charge them too quick and the heat speeds up those reactions, but charge them too slow and you give those parasitic reactions more time to damage the battery. There's a sweet spot in there that maximizes life expectancy.

              And the third thing that kills lithium batteries is the charge-discharge voltage profile. Most lithium batteries have a 2.75 to 4.25 volt range.. but these are the absolute extremes where catastrophic damage (IE: Outgassing, Fire, and all bad things) will not occur. Approaching these outer limits is horribly bad for the cell.. so the specs are normally 3.0 volts to 4.2 volts and if you use those numbers, the cell should have a life expectancy of between 300 and 500 cycles. But here's the catch, if you just pull back the charge to 4.15 and stop discharge at 3.3, you can increase the cycle life from 300-500 to around 1000 cycles. Pull back a little more and charge to 4.1 and stop discharge at 3.4, and you jump to 1500 cycles.. and once again, if you restrict charging to 4.05 and stop discharge at around 3.5 volts, you can increase up to 2000 cycles.

              Every lithium ion battery has a discharge curve, most of the curve is relatively flat'ish, but there are knees on both the top and bottom where voltage response and capacity are no longer linear... it is these "knees" you want to avoid exceeding on both sides.

              For most applications, keep the battery cool and don't exceed the proper charge/dischcarge profile, and a quality lithium battery will last a very long time.. The charge/discharge profile is why consumer gadgets die early.. Pretty much all manufactures will charge their internal lithium batteries to 4.2 volts... bad juju.