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  • If a Power Wall 2 is not big enough for you ?

    If a Power Wall 2 is not big enough, then get a Power Pack 2 ...

    http://www.businessinsider.com/tesla...ck-batteries-6

    [B]210,000 Watt-Hours per Power Pack 2[/B]

    Used to offset peak-power , with or without a Solar PV Array, as needed

    Helping Puerto Rico ...
    https://electrek.co/2017/10/15/tesla...s-puerto-rico/

  • #2
    Good to see Puerto Rico is getting some relief for their power outage.

    But then again they still have the ability to generate power. They just no longer have the infrastructure to distribute that power to the people.

    IMO maybe instead of spending the millions to power a few lucky ones with those batteries they could have installed more power lines to provide power to a lot more people.

    Comment


    • #3
      Currently 265 linemen have been on-the-ground, some for the past 30 days, replacing / repairing the electric power poles, as quickly as possible
      Power is returning to the island, as fast as they can install new power poles and pull new wire.
      Soon there will be 1,000 workers, repairing the 2,500 miles of power lines.

      The Power Wall and the Power Pack will help make the power more reliable - reduce the effects caused by rolling blackouts.
      [B]Progress is quietly being made, daily.[/B]
      Newest estimate ... 95% restoration by Dec 31st - just two more months.


      http://flatheadbeacon.com/2017/10/21...co-power-grid/

      Comment


      • #4
        "...
        During a news conference Saturday, Gov Ricardo Rossello said, his goal ...
        30% of the island's energy grid restored by October 31st
        50% of the island's energy grid restored by November 15th
        80% of the island's energy grid restored by December 1st
        95% of the island's energy grid restored by December 31st

        The [B]US Army Corps of Engineers[/B] will play a key role in making this plan a reality,
        because they have the resources and can hire the manpower that the island's electric utitily agency lacks.

        The [B]US Army Corps of Engineers[/B] has been working on the island for a few weeks,
        ever since FEMA tasked them with helping rebuild the island's infrastructure.

        The [B]US Army Corps of Engineers[/B] has been installing power generators, temporary roofs and reinstalling transmission lines.

        Big stores and restaurants have re-opened because they are now powered by newly installed generators.

        Puerto Rico's power grid was a mess well before the storm.
        The island's electric utility PREPA [U]filed for bankruptcy in July[/U].
        Many employees have retired or quit.
        The system was vulnerable, fragile and in urgent need of maintenance.

        ..."


        The [B]US Army Corps of Engineers[/B] is "fixing" 10 years of neglect.

        Would a PV Array had survived any better or worse than old Power Poles and Transmission Lines?
        Certainly, local generators would be great idea for temporary de-centralized AC Power, after a hurricane.
        Obviously, there was no disaster planning - they could not even maintain what they had.

        Would a PV Array ( roof or ground mount ) have survived this hurricane (assuming the building survived) ?
        Last edited by NEOH; 10-23-2017, 11:02 AM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Looks like it is a slow and steady plan. Hopefully their distribution grid can get installed quickly and safely.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by NEOH View Post
            Would a PV Array had survived any better or worse than old Power Poles and Transmission Lines?

            Would a PV Array ( roof or ground mount ) have survived this hurricane (assuming the building survived) ?
            No you would be left with absolutely nothing. I really feel bad for the folks in Puerto Rico, had and still have a chance to go there and help the recovery. The problem is Puerto Rico government is completely incompetent. There is absolutely no reason for the majority of the Island to be without power now. Yes Puerto Rico was hit hard, but not as hard as say St Thomas or St Martin Virgin Islands. I know this for fact because I went to St Thomas for the recovery. Guess what? St Thomas and St Martin are restored and only thing left is mopping up. In St Thomas and St Martin the Ports and Air Ports are open, and all undamaged structures have power restored. Hotels and Tourist operations are open for biz. Hell even the sole Golf Course, Mahogany Run is open. We played there the day before we left.

            If we had gone to Puerto Rico, we would just be siting there doing nothing because we would not have fuel, materials, equipment, or any real system mapping. Sad thing is with the exception of mapping and local utility personnel who know something about the distribution,everything is there stacked 50 feet high. It just sits there. There are thousands of tons of material, fuel, food, water, and supplies just sitting there. Supply ships orbiting just off the coast waiting for dock space so they can into port and unload. Whats really bad, is what little materials has made it out for distribution, very few locals know about it or can find it.

            WHY YOU ASK?

            Because the Puerto Rico government is completely incompetent. They cannot do simple Logistics of getting materials and supplies out to where it is needed or manage resources. Once materials and supplies do make it out, no one knows about it or where to find it. The dang government cannot even manage to tell people where to go for help. Sad very sad. Thus why the Corp has had to move in. I do not want any part of that. Sure we would make a lot of money sitting there doing almost nothing.

            MSEE, PE

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by SunEagle View Post
              IMO maybe instead of spending the millions to power a few lucky ones with those batteries they could have installed more power lines to provide power to a lot more people.
              . . . at least until the next storm.

              A mix of solutions - grid power with local backup - may be the best option for a place like PR.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by jflorey2 View Post
                . . . at least until the next storm.

                A mix of solutions - grid power with local backup - may be the best option for a place like PR.
                No the best option is to harden the entire power distribution system along with water supply and waste removal.

                Having local backup power for a select few is IMO criminal because it will be the rich that get it and not the poor.

                Comment


                • #9
                  The Mayor of San Juan stated, it is [U][B]not[/B][/U] her responsibility to attend any FEMA or HUD meetings,
                  regarding the distribution of any emergency Food & Water, from the Shipping Port, to the people in need.

                  She is the same mayor that stated "we are staving to death",
                  while standing in front of many pallets of [U]undelivered emergency food[/U] - DUH !!!

                  So just what is her responsibility during this disaster?
                  She sits in her chair, at her desk, in the Mayor's office ( that has AC Power ) and collects a government check.
                  She has no leadership skills.

                  Luckily, the Governor of Puerto Rico has identified her as the root problem and he has stepped in to help with distribution.

                  And another mayor had a whole pallet of emergency food and a whole pallet of emergency water his backyard.
                  The food & water was for the entire town, not just him.

                  Outside of the big cities, Puerto Rico is a 3rd world country.

                  The Army Corp of Engineers, Marines, Navy, FEMA, HUD and outside contractors will fix Puerto Rico despite the corruption.

                  Is it possible to decentralize the AC Power Utility Grid or at least make several smaller grids independent, when needed?
                  And I have always wondered why power lines are not installed underground = no power poles to replace, ever.
                  It costs more upfront but saves replacing every pole, every 10-15 years, forever.
                  And you don't get blackouts from fallen trees = major cause of outages during a storm.
                  With underground you shut every thing down when the storm hits and the next day or two you power most everything back-up.

                  Of course, being under severe pressure to get the AC Power up and running ASAP, we are re-installing Power Poles on a tropical island in the path of hurricanes ...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by NEOH View Post
                    Is it possible to decentralize the AC Power Utility Grid or at least make several smaller grids independent, when needed?..
                    Sure you can. Texas disconnected from the Grid 40 years ago. Texas uses DC-Interconnects. So the USA can go dark and Texas will have power. You isolate AC lines with DC Interconnects.

                    MSEE, PE

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      OK, it appears that Puerto Rico's Island-Wide electrical grid will be [B]Decentralization[/B] ...
                      https://www.engadget.com/2017/10/23/...y-grid-future/

                      If Elon Musk has his way ...
                      Tesla will be installing Micro-Grids comprised of Solar Panels & Tesla Power Packs.
                      Will Tesla replace your fragile PV Array, if there is another Hurricane?

                      A 21st Century Grid ( whatever that means ) ?

                      This is a huge problem ...
                      "... [I]these [power] lines often run through high mountain regions where access by road is either poor or [U][B]nonexistent[/B][/U][/I] ..."

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by NEOH View Post
                        OK, it appears that Puerto Rico's Island-Wide electrical grid will be [B]Decentralization[/B] ...
                        https://www.engadget.com/2017/10/23/...y-grid-future/

                        If Elon Musk has his way ...
                        Tesla will be installing Micro-Grids comprised of Solar Panels & Tesla Power Packs.
                        Will Tesla replace your fragile PV Array, if there is another Hurricane?

                        A 21st Century Grid ( whatever that means ) ?

                        This is a huge problem ...
                        "... [I]these [power] lines often run through high mountain regions where access by road is either poor or [U][B]nonexistent[/B][/U][/I] ..."
                        The main reason that they ran those HV lines over mountains was because their generating plants were in the South and the customers were in the North. Maybe having generating capacity closer to the customers would help reduce those long distance transmission lines along with the liability of losing them.

                        Micro Grids are a good plan if you have the money to build them but you also have to have the knowledge and experience to maintain them. Based on what the POCO didn't or couldn't do to maintain the existing system I would say PR does not have the people to keep even the Micro Grids up and running. Heck they couldn't even get their truck drivers to move the needed emergency supplies that were piling up on the docks.

                        Unfortunately high technology requires experience and hands on knowledge to keep it up and running.

                        So the question is how do you attract that experience to PR once the new grid is installed?



                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by SunEagle View Post
                          No the best option is to harden the entire power distribution system along with water supply and waste removal.
                          If that's practical to do so that the system survives a direct hit by a Cat 4 great. I have a feeling that won't be all that simple/cheap/easy.
                          Having local backup power for a select few is IMO criminal because it will be the rich that get it and not the poor.
                          OK. Having local power backup for a select few could be, IMO, lifesaving - if those select few are water and sewage pumping facilities, hospitals, ports and communications equipment.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by jflorey2 View Post
                            OK. Having local power backup for a select few could be, IMO, lifesaving - if those select few are water and sewage pumping facilities, hospitals, ports and communications equipment.
                            All those already have redundant power, and are numero uno priority for utility companies to get back on-line.

                            Example a Hospital will have 2 utility feeders entering the facility. Those two feeders come from two different distribution sub-station, and generators if both feeders fail.
                            Last edited by Sunking; 10-23-2017, 11:46 PM.
                            MSEE, PE

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              > And I have always wondered why power lines are not installed underground = no power poles to replace, ever.

                              till someone that cant read, uses a backhoe to dig a ditch, and finds the underground power line.

                              https://i.ytimg.com/vi/pwftUYkOX0Y/hqdefault.jpg

                              Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
                              || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
                              || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

                              solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
                              gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

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