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  • J.P.M.
    replied
    Originally posted by solar pete View Post

    Hey guys it's AU dollars, I agree the first gen were not ready for anything really. But and it is a big but, so far with a the grid tied systems it seems like it might be fit for purpose, there is no pay back time like on a standard grid tie system, BUT people are sick of blackouts here and there are many who like the idea of a bit of back up power if the grid goes out. Most of the time the grid here is quite good, and when it goes out it is generally back on within hours.

    I agree that a genny is the sensible option but there are issues there as well, you need to service the genny and make sure the genny battery is not flat etc, the battery just sits there and works, well when they work
    Some maint. is required for any system. I'd suggest that it may take a bit more time get a good handle on maint. requirements for residential level energy storage, or other issues with such systems, such as reliability, which would seem important for applications dealing w/frequent power outages as you write of.

    Compared to a PV/battery system, an ICE powered backup and its maint. still seems a more practical way to go until residential battery storage becomes more mainstream. Folks like you, I, and others around here who live/eat/breath R.E may get a battery backup for our PV sooner than a lot of other folks, but given the ignorance of most folks in such matters (if what shows up on this forum is any indication), it may be a safer course for those folks to wait until battery backup gets closer to what's considered a proven, or at least a more mainstream technology.

    Look, I'm one of the biggest fans of R.E. I know of, but fools with more money than brains spending $$ on what's IMO, still unproven technology helps few, if any, and does R.E. in particular, potential harm. Anyway, I suspect there will be a market for used ICE power generators for some time to come. So, getting one now, until battery storage becomes viable, as it will, may not be a totally sunk cost with no salvage value.

    In spite of what the hucksters and their uninformed treehugger shills may be hawking and saying, home battery storage isn't ready for mainstream/primetime/Joe & Jane 6-pack just yet.

    Leave a comment:


  • SunEagle
    replied
    Originally posted by solar pete View Post
    Just a bit of clarification the bare bones cost of the LG Chem 10kW battery is well under $10K but when you add in the balance of system bits and pieces and the install labor and a nice cabinet its about $10K all done
    That $10k was what I figured was the installed cost.

    Funny how some people latch onto the price of the battery when they do their calculations but forget how much it will cost to install it and make it work.

    It is bad enough that the battery is expensive but add the installation cost and even if the grid goes down for a few hours a battery is still way too expensive for most people.

    Leave a comment:


  • solar pete
    replied
    Just a bit of clarification the bare bones cost of the LG Chem 10kW battery is well under $10K but when you add in the balance of system bits and pieces and the install labor and a nice cabinet its about $10K all done

    Leave a comment:


  • solar pete
    replied
    Originally posted by J.P.M. View Post

    Pete: Are those Aus. $$ or U.S. $$ ? Either way, from what you describe, still sounds not ready for prime time just yet.
    Hey guys it's AU dollars, I agree the first gen were not ready for anything really. But and it is a big but, so far with a the grid tied systems it seems like it might be fit for purpose, there is no pay back time like on a standard grid tie system, BUT people are sick of blackouts here and there are many who like the idea of a bit of back up power if the grid goes out. Most of the time the grid here is quite good, and when it goes out it is generally back on within hours.

    I agree that a genny is the sensible option but there are issues there as well, you need to service the genny and make sure the genny battery is not flat etc, the battery just sits there and works, well when they work
    Last edited by solar pete; 05-10-2017, 02:13 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • J.P.M.
    replied
    Originally posted by SunEagle View Post

    I agree if the action was to save money on my electric bill but based on the stories I have read and what Pete states the problem seems to be the grid going down a lot.

    I am still not sure how to justify a battery for emergency power but in some places I guess it works.
    Two different applications. For uninterrupted power, particularly for emergencies or medical reasons, you want nice, you pay nice, and cost effectiveness is not the most important consideration.

    Until the kinks are worked out, and production costs make home energy storage safe, practical and long term economically viable as an alternative to the grid, I'd get a fossil fuel powered generator as others who need/want mostly uninterrupted power have done for some time, and let the early adoptors get screwed by the hypsters as their needs dictate, and so work the kinks out and bring the price of electric energy storage at the residential level down to long term cost effectiveness.

    Leave a comment:


  • SunEagle
    replied
    Originally posted by J.P.M. View Post

    Pete: Are those Aus. $$ or U.S. $$ ? Either way, from what you describe, still sounds not ready for prime time just yet.
    I agree if the action was to save money on my electric bill but based on the stories I have read and what Pete states the problem seems to be the grid going down a lot.

    I am still not sure how to justify a battery for emergency power but in some places I guess it works.

    Leave a comment:


  • J.P.M.
    replied
    Originally posted by solar pete View Post

    It's cost the end customer about $10,000 for a 10kW/hr unit (the first ones were 8.5 kW/h for memory and you could add an expansion pack that gave you another 3.5kW/h had lots of problems with those ones as they just wouldnt play nice with SMA gear and they hated generators, so totally useless in off grid application. The new 10kW/h one we are only going to use with grid tied systems.
    Pete: Are those Aus. $$ or U.S. $$ ? Either way, from what you describe, still sounds not ready for prime time just yet.

    Leave a comment:


  • SunEagle
    replied
    Originally posted by solar pete View Post

    It's cost the end customer about $10,000 for a 10kW/hr unit (the first ones were 8.5 kW/h for memory and you could add an expansion pack that gave you another 3.5kW/h had lots of problems with those ones as they just wouldnt play nice with SMA gear and they hated generators, so totally useless in off grid application. The new 10kW/h one we are only going to use with grid tied systems.
    Wow even if that 10kWh unit can be discharged 85% and have 3600 cycles it calculates out to $0.33/kWh which is high for most places in the US but I guess not so for Australia. And it the unit can go 3600 cycles the cost per kWh goes up.

    Still too rich for my blood.

    Leave a comment:


  • solar pete
    replied
    Originally posted by SunEagle View Post

    Pete. What is the approximate cost for that battery and what kWh rating and cycle life does it claim to have?
    It's cost the end customer about $10,000 for a 10kW/hr unit (the first ones were 8.5 kW/h for memory and you could add an expansion pack that gave you another 3.5kW/h had lots of problems with those ones as they just wouldnt play nice with SMA gear and they hated generators, so totally useless in off grid application. The new 10kW/h one we are only going to use with grid tied systems.

    Leave a comment:


  • SunEagle
    replied
    Originally posted by solar pete View Post
    We can and do get the LG Chem battery here. We had heaps of issues with the first gen of the LG Chem battery they were crap. However the second version is going, well so far so good. These are used on grid tied systems as primarily a back up in case the grid goes out. We had a big State wide grid outage a couple of months ago and the demand has surged but time will tell if the second gen of the LG battery will cut the mustard. Cheers all
    Pete. What is the approximate cost for that battery and what kWh rating and cycle life does it claim to have?

    Leave a comment:


  • solar pete
    replied
    We can and do get the LG Chem battery here. We had heaps of issues with the first gen of the LG Chem battery they were crap. However the second version is going, well so far so good. These are used on grid tied systems as primarily a back up in case the grid goes out. We had a big State wide grid outage a couple of months ago and the demand has surged but time will tell if the second gen of the LG battery will cut the mustard. Cheers all

    Leave a comment:


  • Sunking
    replied
    Originally posted by jflorey2 View Post
    We got ours from a local company called CED Greentech.
    Well I asked for a Link and you gave me SMOKE.

    Leave a comment:


  • jflorey2
    replied
    Originally posted by Sunking View Post
    More smoke, no fire. Show me a link where I can order and have delivered next week.
    We got ours from a local company called CED Greentech.


    Leave a comment:


  • Sunking
    replied
    Originally posted by J.P.M. View Post

    So let the beta testers, early adoptors and treehuggers who have more $$ than brains buy the stuff and knock themselves and the kinks out. Nothing new there.
    That i show I do it.

    Leave a comment:


  • J.P.M.
    replied
    Originally posted by Sunking View Post
    [FONT=comic sans ms]That is my point. Show me a product I can order today and have delivered next week. Money talks, BS walks.[/FONT]
    So let the beta testers, early adoptors and treehuggers who have more $$ than brains buy the stuff and knock themselves and the kinks out. Nothing new there.

    Leave a comment:

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