LiFePO4 reseller in Canada

[extrafu]

workinstiff I finally decided to get Rolls Surette batteries, and not LiFePO4. So far, so good.

[workinstiff]

Hi extrafu. I'm in Alberta and will be looking to purchase some LiFePO4 for my off grid system in the near future. Wondering what success you had in sourcing in Canada?
Thanks
Ken

Mod note: Hi Ken, it might take a day or two for the admins to approve you for posting, but I've approved this one in the meantime to see if you get a response. Welcome to the forum. --Steve

[Sunking]

Back to this main topic of this thread... Do any of you guys know any stores in the USA (Canada is virtually impossible) where Winston 90Ah cells are available? I might have a very good deal for a temporary bank.

In the USA they had to change thier name to Voltronix because or poor quality, mostly Euro and Aussie trash use them under the Winston name. They have a poor track record. Basically failed Thundersky in a new box. The best of the Chi-Coms is CALB.

[Sunking]

One last thing, if you are going to use a lifepo4 pack in off grid, never bottom balance, or you will stuff at least one cell line. We've found over many years of experimentation, the best balancing system is your load and if you install the system at 3.2v balanced, it never needs balancing again.

Complete hogwash. You can Balance at the Top or Bottom, but not in the MIDDLE unless your cells are within 1% capacity tolerance.

Do you know where Bottom Balance comes from? It comes from Aerospace Engineering.

[extrafu]

Back to this main topic of this thread... Do any of you guys know any stores in the USA (Canada is virtually impossible) where Winston 90Ah cells are available? I might have a very good deal for a temporary bank.

[DanKegel]

There are indeed several people on the forum that delight in rudeness under cover of "straight talk", but get away with it because they are otherwise very helpful and knowledgeable. The forum would be poorer without them, so the rude behavior is tolerated. Simply ignoring it (while flagging anything really out of line) is probably the best option.

[J.P.M.]

Point well taken and thank you for your advise. However I will not tolerate rudeness. There is no reason for it, and it takes away from the learning process. On the other hand directness is welcome.

You're welcome. As for rudeness, that may be a matter of opinion, which are like noses - everyone has one, most of them smell at least some of the time, and some are downright ugly.

Not everyone who tells you things you don't like is your enemy any more than folks who tell you what you want to hear are necessarily your friends.

[SunEagle]

I see, so if someone calls a moderator names then action will be taken but when a moderator calls someone names repeatedly and flames them, nothing is done? That is a double standard my friend. I admittedly know nothing about the subject of Lifepo4 technology, if you read my reply you will see that, and I and just want to learn more about it. As someone new here, I joined to be able to gain knowledge of subjects that I am not familiar with and to share my experiences. I understand what you are saying about people and their claims as I have reviewed previous posts in here. The issue that I have here is that if a moderator is going to make a comment in an open and public forum then it should be done in a more open and professional manner. A forum moderator is a person who is supposed to keep the forum open and even for intelligent discussion and keep the members in line with the forum rules. IMO a moderator should not be judging others posts and replies and calling names or putting the members down.

I actually did not see any rude comments made by Mike to you unless it is in reference the KISS comment. That isn't being rude it is an acronym used by many people and is in no way abusive to anyone unless they have a thin skin.

[ncs55]

Point well taken and thank you for your advise. However I will not tolerate rudeness. There is no reason for it, and it takes away from the learning process. On the other hand directness is welcome.

[Mike90250]

..... what comes from a single person boasting about what they can do and others can't, IMO it is just Hot air.

I'll add "magic-cant-divulge-the-brand" batteries and black magic "Trust Me" BMS as being hot air heaters too.

[J.P.M.]

Mike,
I got the impression that he did educate the customer and the customer did not follow the instructions and did what they wanted instead which resulted in the failure. Did you read and understand the post? I see in this forum that anything that does not fit into the self proclaimed experts box instantly gets bashed by a certain few of you in here. Why are you guys trying to drive others out of here? It seems that a few of you have the god complex. Why is it that sunking and others can belittle people and cut on them using foul language and rude comments, like your recent reply here and not get reprimanded? You are not very becoming of a moderator or how a moderator should be replying to someone who is just trying to let others know in an open forum about their experiences. What kind of forum lets this type of crap happen? Your comment of KISS basically was calling dax stupid. You are a very sad moderator.

Welcome to the forum of few(er) illusions. I'd respectfully suggest you consider a skin changeout to something more robust along with ignoring who/what you want, and continuing your otherwise cogent and respectful postings.

Rude behavior is like beauty and in the eye of the beholder. This is, among other things, a place to exchange information and express opinions. Some folks posting here put what they view as direct, unequivocal communication over politically correctness and enabling behavior.

Some welcome the candor, and consider it respectful for it's directness. I believe intentional rudeness has naught to do with it, at least most of the time. Such few times when frustration or short temperedness may be present is when the thicker skin comes in handy.

Take what you want of the above. Scrap the rest.

[SunEagle]

Mike,
I got the impression that he did educate the customer and the customer did not follow the instructions and did what they wanted instead which resulted in the failure. Did you read and understand the post? I see in this forum that anything that does not fit into the self proclaimed experts box instantly gets bashed by a certain few of you in here. Why are you guys trying to drive others out of here? It seems that a few of you have the god complex. Why is it that sunking and others can belittle people and cut on them using foul language and rude comments, like your recent reply here and not get reprimanded? You are not very becoming of a moderator or how a moderator should be replying to someone who is just trying to let others know in an open forum about their experiences. What kind of forum lets this type of crap happen? Your comment of KISS basically was calling dax stupid. You are a very sad moderator.

I agree that sometimes Sunking can be rude and offensive. The same goes for a few others including dax. I have not stepped in to Moderate either of their posts but I have come close. I will not accept anyone calling a Moderator or Admin names and will take action if it continues.

While Sunking may not be up to date with all Li chemistry batteries he has more experience on the subject then anyone else I have read about or talked to. So while he may have an opinion concerning other peoples posts about batteries you have to understand that there have been many "experts" that come here and beat their chests with all types of boasts about what they have done only to be found out to be liars and frauds.

So if you and dax have hands on experience concerning a Li chemistry battery that has not been used a lot in the US then I would be happy to read about what they can do and how much better they may be. But until I see more proof on the technology than what comes from a single person boasting about what they can do and others can't, IMO it is just Hot air.

[karrak]

This graph shows you why you should have environmental control for LFP off grid battery packs if it makes economic sense. If you don't understand the graph you shouldn't be commenting.
CapacityFadeTemp.jpg
Graph comes from this research paper

Simon

[Mike90250]

Any balancing scheme can be defeated by abuse, either driving low capacity cells too deep into discharge, or overcharging the low capacity cells to get the extra capacity cells full. The user must be educated and made aware of these requirements, or the installer has not done the job.
But if your middle cells are hot, and low V, then both the entire pack was poorly matched to begin with AND your fancy environmental controls failed.
But you will never sell me with mumble-jumble about environmentally controlled off grid battery packs, because it's totally not needed at sub C rates, low iR never heats the cells. (which is why in the cold environments LFP must be heated). Getting too fancy and you forget the K.I.S.S. (Keep it simple stupid) principle. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KISS_principle

[ncs55]

Thanks for the detailed reply. I am in the USA and you are right that most do not understand lead acid and are relegated to 5-7 year lifespan. We build custom boxes with thermal blocking to keep our batteries at a constant temperature range and maintain them according to the battery manufacturer, IE daily depth of discharge, recommended bulk, absorb float and equalize parameters according to daily load cycle. It is a lot to get your head wrapped around. So most installers are selling gel batteries and the lower line of the lead acid line. We work with Crown and set our charge controllers up according to the parameters above. If the customer follows the procedure or hires us to do it, we are seeing around 10 year life span give or take with 6V batteries which are the most common out here. I live with 2V batteries and we have been able to push them to 14 years and are still around 90%. However I want to replace them with something different that requires less maintenance when they fail. Is that retraining program available over here? I would be interested in learning everything I can about the lifepo4 from the book and most importantly from the guys in the field. I realize from my experiences that there is a difference in those two training scenarios and both are required IMO for a full understanding of the design and how the operation and the system reacts to real world usage. If you can send me any links or PM me with them I would appreciate it. Thanks for sharing the information so far.