Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Lithium Ion Capacitors (LIC)!

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Lithium Ion Capacitors (LIC)!

    Hi,

    Check this out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_ion_capacitor. This would make a killer solar panel energy storage device!

    I've been looking around, but I can't find any distributors (even for experimental usage). Advanced Capacitor Technologies (ACT) seems to have a capacitor called Premlis that can do 14-25 Wh/kg, but their distributor (JEOL) seems unresponsive to email requests. Another brand is JSR Micro's Ultimo series. Announcements on experimental setups date back to 2008.

  • #2
    Hi Need4Speed - Welcome!

    The Wiki has a bit of wishful thinking in it.

    The new capacitors have a lot of people excited but to date there is nothing available and probably will not be for years to come. From the lab to the market is one big-big step.

    They will be useful in everything from cars to solar/wind system storage if they ever become successful.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Comment


    • #3
      Used in what way? At 14 to 25 wh/kg is only half the density of lead acid batteries which is poor to start with. Lithium Ion battery chemistry today go as high 200 wh/Kg. So I guess I fail to see any use for the capacitors used as a storage device as there are much better options on the market right now.
      MSEE, PE

      Comment


      • #4
        There are some fantastic super caps available that could be now used for storage but there is one small tiny almost insignificant problem.
        You need to spend over $50,000 to have the capacity of a good 100ahr deep cycle battery..
        But if you need something that can give almost unbelievable destructive output for 1/4 of a second you cant beat a good bank of super caps..:becky:

        Comment


        • #5
          EEstor was flogging this item real hard - big breakthroughs they claimed.

          Nothing much heard from them the past year - maybe they ran out of suckers to supply VC.

          Russ
          [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

          Comment


          • #6
            The new capacitors have a lot of people excited but to date there is nothing available and probably will not be for years to come. From the lab to the market is one big-big step.
            According to the ACT and JM/JSR websites these caps are in production. I've seen reports of them being used in Japanese streetlights, and also in Subaru motor vehicles.

            They will be useful in everything from cars to solar/wind system storage if they ever become successful.
            The energy density might be a bit low for cars, but would be ideal for stationary installations

            Originally posted by Sunking View Post
            So I guess I fail to see any use for the capacitors used as a storage device as there are much better options on the market right now.
            Cycle count. Battery:1000's Capacitors: > 100 000's.

            There are some fantastic super caps available that could be now used for storage but there is one small tiny almost insignificant problem.
            LICs have an energy density 4x that of normal EDLC super caps, approaching that of lead acid batteries. But yes, they will probably be hideously expensive.

            But if you need something that can give almost unbelievable destructive output for 1/4 of a second you cant beat a good bank of super caps..
            I always wanted a Star Trek type phasor (set to stun)

            EEstor was flogging this item real hard - big breakthroughs they claimed.
            EEStor caps are supposedly based on "doped barium-calcium-zirconium-titanate". They claim energy densities above Lithium Ion Batteries. It's been more than 5 years now, so yeah, I'm also a bit skeptical of their claims.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Need4Speed View Post
              Hi,

              Check this out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_ion_capacitor. This would make a killer solar panel energy storage device!

              I've been looking around, but I can't find any distributors (even for experimental usage). Advanced Capacitor Technologies (ACT) seems to have a capacitor called Premlis that can do 14-25 Wh/kg, but their distributor (JEOL) seems unresponsive to email requests. Another brand is JSR Micro's Ultimo series. Announcements on experimental setups date back to 2008.
              unless this is designed to be a 'battcap' capacitors are great for short bursts of HIGH current but terrible at long storage as they loose power quickly.

              maybe good to start up an air compressor but that's about it.
              But what if you use 12% and only get 8% energy return not filling a battery completely off the solar array- is this considered a cycle? Mmmmmmm mauh brain's sizzling
              [/QUOTE]
              [quote] If a pigeon had his brains it would fly sideways [/quote]

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by SpaceOddacy View Post
                terrible at long storage as they loose power quickly.
                LICs have very low self discharge

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Need4Speed View Post
                  The energy density might be a bit low for cars, but would be ideal for stationary installations
                  Not so sure about that as current 100+ year old lead acid technology exceeds energy density with 40 to 50 wh/Kg at a small fraction of the cost per Kwh storage capacity. Couple that with there is no consumer affordable safe technology available to consumers to convert a capacitor large voltage di/dt ratio of say charging to 100,000 volts down to 100 volts for use is on the market.

                  Super caps make great filters, and power storage device to keep a very high impedance (extremely low power) CPU clock alive, but as of now has no practical use in power applications. Well unless you are Lockheed Martin using governmental making an impulse space weapon.
                  MSEE, PE

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Sunking View Post
                    Not so sure about that as current 100+ year old lead acid technology exceeds energy density with 40 to 50 wh/Kg at a small fraction of the cost per Kwh storage capacity.
                    Yes, it all comes down to cost per KWh. However, take into account the cost of maintenance and full battery replacement every 5 years. I don't care if the thing weighs half a ton, I will reserve a room in the house for capacitors

                    Couple that with there is no consumer affordable safe technology available to consumers to convert a capacitor large voltage di/dt ratio of say charging to 100,000 volts down to 100 volts for use is on the market.
                    I(t) = C*(dv/dt). At 5000 Farad capacitance, dv/dt should be manageable?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Need4Speed I understand your passion, I believe our paths have crossed on a EV forum. I have great interest in lithium battery technology, and Super Caps have a very important use today in the EV world with respect to regen braking to buffer the battery...

                      As for battery technology lithium has the best promise and i am confident in a very few short years there will be LFP sets for Renewable Energy applications as a spin off from EV development. Heck you can do it now using communist LFP batteries under the name of Thundersky for around 40 to 50 cents per watt hour. I have a set of 48 volt 100 AH in my golf cart NEV conversion and love it. I am winning all kind of races where i live at.
                      MSEE, PE

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        need4speed you just couldnt afford even a cupboaed full of really good supercaps let alone a room full(unless you Bill Gates etc..)
                        But if you get them you will be impressed by the energy you can get of of them days after you charge them up..,,:becky:

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Need4Speed View Post
                          LICs have very low self discharge
                          I stand corrected I apologize.
                          But what if you use 12% and only get 8% energy return not filling a battery completely off the solar array- is this considered a cycle? Mmmmmmm mauh brain's sizzling
                          [/QUOTE]
                          [quote] If a pigeon had his brains it would fly sideways [/quote]

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Sunking View Post
                            Used in what way? At 14 to 25 wh/kg is only half the density of lead acid batteries which is poor to start with. Lithium Ion battery chemistry today go as high 200 wh/Kg. So I guess I fail to see any use for the capacitors used as a storage device as there are much better options on the market right now.
                            Probably the only use would be unlimited charge/discharge cycles. I only think the capacitor would be good for huge surges that the LiFePO4 would be difficult to handle. The supercapacitors density is not good, you would need a 3 car garage full of them that would cost $300,000 to supply what a refrigerator sized case of LiFePO4 would do.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Still Looking for Distributors....

                              Replying to a 4 year old post? If you wish to advertise contact user name Jason.
                              Last edited by russ; 08-04-2014, 01:49 PM. Reason: removed ad

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X