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If Dax reappears maybe he'll clarifiy the type of 40-50 amp hr cells he's using. I do agree that the prismatic batteries we're thinking about ( Winston, CALB, GBS and others do not use pouch cells, A123 type ), as apparent in the pictures. I thought it was time to show what they look like since someone posted they looked inside one and what was posted was totally wrong and BS.
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SimonOriginally posted by karrak
My misunderstanding of your relationship (or not one) with dax. It was hard to tell considering were you backing him up so strongly.
Also while you may feel that I am not "balanced" in my treatment to all antagonists, I feel I have done a pretty good job.
Also referring back to that thread you mentioned. I still stand by the decision to enforce the rule of not allowing bad information or poor suggestions concerning solar technology to be posted on this forum. People are too easily convinced of what will work just watching youtube videos. Allowing similar details with lack of backup data to be posted on this forum and not call that out would be misleading and possibly dangerous to others.
If dax and his company have developed a better battery then I would say congratulations. But words are cheap and IMO proof comes from real life data. Since I do not have this data concerning dax's battery I can't fully support it and will continue to be cautious about allowing people that I do not know to make claims without providing at least some specific data to back up their claims.Comment
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"Large format lithium battery"
Just thought some may find this interesting.
"Large format lithium battery" - is that the same as large cells ? It is the only 'consumer', plug and play, LFP battery bank I've run into. It is packaged nicely - and as SK will tell you, that is all that matters
Sign me up if there is beer and hula dancers.
I little levity goes a long way. PNjunction is always knowledge seeking and courteous. When skeptical, he asks for facts without being condescending. If I knew anything about anything, I'd follow his lead .
Ignorantly, I made the mistake of buying a 155ah AGM SLA for my first 'real' toy project. Personally, I'm ready to kick lead acid to the curb. It has turned my 'solar fun' project into 'am I killing my battery' project. That 5000 year old tech is dead to me.
For solar to 'really' take off, a consumer friendly, modern energy storage technology needs to rise to the challenge. At this moment, I'm putting my money on LFP. So keep their feet to the fire PNjunction
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The normal way of describing a battery considers the cell boundary to be the boundary of the common electrolyte bath and gas space, not each pair of positive and negative plates. So each of the batteries in the picture would be one cell, or at most two if there is a boundary between the upper and lower halves.
If you consider just plates, the geometry of a stack of positive and negative plates with separators makes it hard to identify whether each plate forms one "cell" with one of the two plates next to it or one cell which shares the plates on either side with one cell.
In a typical FLA battery cell (2V nominal) there will be many positive and negative plates joined by lead bus bars at the tops but we do not consider this to be many cells in parallel.
There is a distinction of sorts that can be made between the prismatic cell with layered plates, the prismatic cell with wraparounds of the plates at the edges in a zig-zag configuration and the cylindrical cell with only two electrode sheets interleaved and wound continuously from center to outside. But I would call each of those a single cell.SunnyBoy 3000 US, 18 BP Solar 175B panels.Comment
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That .be domain-hack kind of freaks me out.
Still, this is what I'm talking about. And to be fair to Dax, here goes:
We don't know what the cells actually are, nor do we know what the "mppt technology" controller really is, nor do we know what sort of dc/ac inverter they are using. All of it is sight-unseen except for some pretty portable cases. I want to know what's inside before buying.
In addition, pics of some of the panels just simply ground mounted with clumps of grass across the bottom throwing shadows shows that they (or maybe just the photographers) don't know that you need to keep shadows off mono/polycrystalline panels. They really should have cleaned up in front of some of those shots. Unwary users will just plunk them down on the lawn like in the photos, and then wonder why nothing seems to charge well.
Uh, yeeeaaah, one could do much better by constructing a kit of their own.
Actually, there is a lot to learn from a "learner project" like this, so if you take notes, it isn't money wasted. Perhaps you can still go lead-acid with a redesign. There, I said it - l love LFP, but for me, it is just one of several chemistries available to us, and not a sweeping replacement across the board.Ignorantly, I made the mistake of buying a 155ah AGM SLA for my first 'real' toy project. Personally, I'm ready to kick lead acid to the curb. It has turned my 'solar fun' project into 'am I killing my battery' project. That 5000 year old tech is dead to me.
Well, with stuff like the above, if it fails to perform, the consumer will blame the battery chemistry, and not the componentry and/or build quality. Kind of like coming home with a brand new sports-car, and when asked what it is, they really don't know what's under the hood.For solar to 'really' take off, a consumer friendly, modern energy storage technology needs to rise to the challenge. At this moment, I'm putting my money on LFP. So keep their feet to the fire PNjunction
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It's the link given by youtube when you share the video at a certain spot rather than copying the url. You save a whole character or something.
I'm not even entertaining buying it. The details are quite opaque.
The "large format" is what caught my attention in regard to this thread.
Probably so but as a learner project, I'd just assume start with LFP. I've learned :P Ha, we'll see, thanks again for your insights. PaulComment
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I don't know what that video has to do with dax, if you go to the company website mentioned in the video you will find they are based in the US. They must be doing something right if their customers include NASA, all branches of the US military, Lockheed Martin etc.Still, this is what I'm talking about. And to be fair to Dax, here goes:
We don't know what the cells actually are, nor do we know what the "mppt technology" controller really is, nor do we know what sort of dc/ac inverter they are using. All of it is sight-unseen except for some pretty portable cases. I want to know what's inside before buying.
In addition, pics of some of the panels just simply ground mounted with clumps of grass across the bottom throwing shadows shows that they (or maybe just the photographers) don't know that you need to keep shadows off mono/polycrystalline panels. They really should have cleaned up in front of some of those shots. Unwary users will just plunk them down on the lawn like in the photos, and then wonder why nothing seems to charge well.
Uh, yeeeaaah, one could do much better by constructing a kit of their own.
SimonOff-Grid LFP(LiFePO4) system since April 2013Comment
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It just shows that I'm not picking on him personally, I'm just pointing out that the common element in both cases is buying things sight unseen. It has nothing to do with location, or differences in quality.
I understand from a business standpoint that one wants to have the flexibility of changing your supplier without having to deliver those details to the customer. For instance, some powersports LFP battery suppliers used A123, and people thought they were buying those internally based on previous sales. But lo and behold, a year or two later when they built up a name, they are no longer using A123, but something else, and you have to cut one open to find out who the replacement is. For some, that brand-switch is unacceptable when it is not mentioned in detail any longer.
The extreme analogy here is buying what was supposed to be a Rolls-Surrette, but a few years later, the Costco battery shows up at your door instead. Since we are discussing a *proposed* retail business and not the current private contractor biz, analogies are all we have to go by.
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CALB LFP cells
I asked them what type of LFP - "CALB LFP cells". Hard to tell how reputable they are but to my eyes it looks like a well built, well thought out product. Still, trick or treat, who knows.Comment
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Huh? When I taught urchins in a community college, I liked pointing out the morons so they would leave and quit wasting my and other students time and money with one simple question they cannot answer correctly. their eyes just glaze over and roll into the back of their heads. Only to find out later after being laughed at for being stupid.
Who is buried in Grant's Tomb?MSEE, PEComment
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Exactly. Are they the new-old-stock original formula SE "blue" CALB cells to save costs? The question here is exactly what models are inside, and who is their supplier? What is their manufacturing relationship with Calb?
The blue cells, while ok for our purposes, are getting long in the tooth if they are using those.Comment
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