FLA vs NorthStar Telecom batteries

[GeorgeF]

Imaginary case:
No grid electricity on an island, a lot of gensets and solar panels available to choose (to buy) but only two battery choices:

* used telecom batteries like NorthStar red or blue
* NEW fla batteries which they use for gensets

New FLA is cheaper than used telecom batteries.

Question:
1. Which one would you choose?
2. How would you use it, max DoD % ?

[Mike90250]

I'd always use the new over the old, and limit the DoD to just a puny 10%, the thin plates will not take many deep cycles

[GeorgeF]

Is there a chance that in this case the FLA will last longer because you can equalize easier and take control of the waterlevel or not?

[Mike90250]

Is there a chance that in this case the FLA will last longer because you can equalize easier and take control of the waterlevel or not?

i don't know. EQ cycles are hard on a battery, I don't even know if the SLI flooded batteries can be EQ'd, or if it would turn the plates into swiss cheese

[Sunking]

Is there a chance that in this case the FLA will last longer because you can equalize easier and take control of the waterlevel or not?

Northstar AGM are good batteries, but FLA will last longer of equal quality and less expensive up front. Something like Trojan Industrial, or Rolls 5000 series. Both have better warranties and will outlast any AGM.

You can monitor and fix FLA batteries by monitoring Specific Gravity and water levels. You can fix a lot of problems with an EQ charge, with AGM you are SOL and money. AGM batteries have their applications, but you had better justify their use because in the end they are 400% more expensive. That is a hard lesson for some to learn.

FWIW EQing AGM batteries is a dirty word and will void warranty unless specifically instructed by the manufacture to do so which would be very rare. They would require very specific charge profile and thermal monitoring. Most consumers just do not have the equipment, training or experience to pull it off. I have seen Northstar authorize a EQ charge for large telcos with large plants and required a Northstar rep has to be present to monitor the process. But that only happens when you have a $100,000 or more battery plant at risk. Otherwise you can easily do a lot of damage to them.

[GeorgeF]

Northstar AGM are good batteries, but FLA will last longer of equal quality and less expensive up front. Something like Trojan Industrial, or Rolls 5000 series. Both have better warranties and will outlast any AGM.

You can monitor and fix FLA batteries by monitoring Specific Gravity and water levels. You can fix a lot of problems with an EQ charge, with AGM you are SOL and money. AGM batteries have their applications, but you had better justify their use because in the end they are 400% more expensive. That is a hard lesson for some to learn.

....... .

There are a lot of used NorthStar thin plates batteries available. According to NorthStar their blue+ serie is suitable for daily cycle use, also ofcourse fast charge and pSoC.

I have mailed NorthStar about this and amazingly their answer is "the blue+ provides 1000 cycles @ DoD 50% for offgrid daily cycle use" 🤔🤔

I've read some of your post Sunking and I understand that you are a very experienced PV-battery-electric consultant.

Do you think that (scond hand) blue+ NorthStar is suitable for daily cycling with an offgrid system. Will these batteries give reasonable number of cycles after being floated for a number of years?

[Mike90250]

.....
Do you think that (scond hand) blue+ NorthStar is suitable for daily cycling with an offgrid system. Will these batteries give reasonable number of cycles after being floated for a number of years?

How many years old are they ? What's your threshold for reasonable use ? what will the seller stand behind ?

[GeorgeF]

Wether its used or new I am really wondering if the carbon thin plate blue+ NorthStar are suitable for slowly deep cycling to 50% DoD.

Ofcourse you can do this with every lead acid but then it won't last long for sure.

The claim of NorthStar that their blue+ serie is also suitable for daily offgrid cycle use
as of it is a deep cycle battery amazed me. They added carbon for pSoC, Troyan did also i think.

SO, can a thin plate battery like this one perform like a deep cycle (thick plates) battery??

https://www.northstarbattery.com/blue-plus-battery

[Mike90250]

...

SO, can a thin plate battery like this one perform like a deep cycle (thick plates) battery??

I have my doubts. Feel free to keep this topic updated with your results

[GeorgeF]

Mike,
I myself am not using any of NorthStar batteries. Like you I have my doubts also. Like I said also in another thread , there are people who sell used telecom batteries and show to others the NorthStar's blue+ serie link.

Look how they describe this battery on their official website.

[Mike90250]

Nice sales pitch, it boils down to what happens when you claim a warranty issue.