should i be worried

[dutchoffgrid]

Hello all,

i have a small offgrid system that has the following items: 4x 100 watt poly panel connected parralel to a epsolar tracer 40Amp mppt controller (running @ 12v) and it charges 2x panther semi-traction 60Amp batteries (partnr 95502), The batteries are also connected parralel for a 120Amp bank @ 12volt

I also have the load terminals connected to a bunch of stuff troughout the house like a few lights (halogen), few routers (that i use as accespoints), cigarette adapters to 5volt and some other small misc stuff.
it draws about 5 amps at max usage so almost nothing (to me).

The problem is: When it gets dark outside the batteries take over but only do so for maybe a couple of hours, I am not able to make it through the night, not even till midnight.

Should i be worried that my battery bank is failing? i have 2 more 100ah panther semi-traction batteries on standby and able to hook it up to the system but will this help me enough? to keep everything running and not having to look at it. I do not want to ruin the batteries (the 2x 100 are new, never connected)

or should i consider going from offgrid (it has cost me alot of money) to grid tied?
grid tied will only cost me a grid tied inventer and is not that expensive (price of 2,5 batteries)

(so sorry for my grammer, not the best language day for me)
With kindest regards,

Dutch offgrid

[sensij]

If your goal is to save money on your electric bill, yes, grid tied is what you want. Battery systems are very expensive, and you are correct, the way it is running now will quickly kill those batteries.

[dutchoffgrid]

my goal is to be as much independant as i can, not only relying on grid power, but also in power outages being able to provide my own power (not that we have outages, grid is stable here)
the more i can generate on my own, the less money i have to pay for electric, so it's kinda 2way faced

[DanKegel]

Energy independence is nice, but as you have seen, it is expensive, and takes more than you would at first expect.

The forum user sunking has a lot of experience with lead-acid batteries, you should read his sticky posts for advice.

Also, can you switch from halogen lamps to LED lamps? That might extend battery life a bit.

[Logan005]

any daily cycled batteries in the system will eliminate any power savings. If you wish to have backup batteries, do not cycle them unless your grid fails. otherwise you will pay 4 to 10 times as much for your electricity.

[dutchoffgrid]

Hi DanKegel: it is nice, it is expensive and yes can also take your bank account, over the past several years i've been watching hundreds of YT video's on going offgrid with solar and it all seems so good and do-able, seen all the video's on the harbor freight systems and outback / midnite controllers, and now with the investment of several 1000 euro's / dollars... i want a piece of payback

The main thing what am thinking of right now, is investing into either more batteries (expanding the AMP hours) of forget it and go grid tie.

@Logan005: i do not want backup batteries, as they take up space, and will age / lose power over time, i want an offgrid system that can handle my daily needs in power, and to be able to use that power when and iff the power will fail on occasion, but am now on a crossroad between buying more batteries or investing the money to go ongrid

[Logan005]

Hi DanKegel: it is nice, it is expensive and yes can also take your bank account, over the past several years i've been watching hundreds of YT video's on going offgrid with solar and it all seems so good and do-able, seen all the video's on the harbor freight systems and outback / midnite controllers, and now with the investment of several 1000 euro's / dollars... i want a piece of payback

The main thing what am thinking of right now, is investing into either more batteries (expanding the AMP hours) of forget it and go grid tie.

@Logan005: i do not want backup batteries, as they take up space, and will age / lose power over time, i want an offgrid system that can handle my daily needs in power, and to be able to use that power when and iff the power will fail on occasion, but am now on a crossroad between buying more batteries or investing the money to go ongrid

Huh?

[dutchoffgrid]

Logan005: i just want a good performing solar system pref. offgrid

[inetdog]

If you have grid power available there is no such thing as a good performing off grid battery system.
You can ask what is the least inefficient configuration for a battery storage system for a site that has grid, but it will still be a lot more expensive to use than your grid power and have a higher environmental footprint.

[dutchoffgrid]

So the basic question is: am i willing to invest in a proper batterybank that can cost me a lot of money, foodprint is not a problem i have got the space to store them.

Guessing the 120amp bank isn't going to work, Prehabs i could hookup the 2x100ah along with the 120amps, any thoughts on that??

[sensij]

I wouldn't use the word "invest" for the system you are describing. Adding more batteries doesn't help if you aren't replenishing the energy you take out of them each day. If you are going to spend more money on this, you should, at a minimum, get a better handle on what your energy consumption is each day, and try to model how much energy you are capable of generating with the system you have.

[inetdog]

So the basic question is: am i willing to invest in a proper batterybank that can cost me a lot of money, foodprint is not a problem i have got the space to store them.

Guessing the 120amp bank isn't going to work, Prehabs i could hookup the 2x100ah along with the 120amps, any thoughts on that??

1. Putting batteries in parallel, especially mismatched batteries, is a bad idea and will also reduce battery life drastically.
2. Right now you have a reasonable amount of panels for the size battery you have but both they and the battery bank do not appear to be up to your 24/7 loads and your high power lighting. Adding more battery without adding panels will not work. And decreasing load is the first thing to do.
EDIT: It is also possible that your batteries are rated large enough but are too damaged to do the job. They need to be tested.
3. Halogen lights are very inefficient compared to CFL or LEDs. LEDs can be run directly off your battery system avoiding energy loss in an inverter and will use 1/6 or less the power that the halogen bulbs are using to give the same amount of light.
4. A router may be a small load, but running it constantly during the night adds up fast. Get a KillAWatt meter and see just what your daily loads are before investing any money in upgrading the system.

[dutchoffgrid]

Hi sensij: the most ideal setting would be to disconnect the grid and going total offgrid and only using solar for my power needs AC and DC

I know that is not going to happen, but having the system to do so would be awesome, and that is what i am trying to get
And i know that 400 watt of power is by far not enough to replenisch my bank, but i have some more panels (7x100watts) that are in storage right now (have to build a stand or roof to fit em on)

My energy consumption right now is not that big, but i want to expand, but before i can expand, i need to get the basics in first.. If that means installing a bigger batterybank... Then that's it, If it means going for an other approach thats also food for thoughts

[dutchoffgrid]

1. Putting batteries in parallel, especially mismatched batteries, is a bad idea and will also reduce battery life drastically.
2. Right now you have a reasonable amount of panels for the size battery you have but both they and the battery bank do not appear to be up to your 24/7 loads and your high power lighting. Adding more battery without adding panels will not work. And decreasing load is the first thing to do.
EDIT: It is also possible that your batteries are rated large enough but are too damaged to do the job. They need to be tested.
3. Halogen lights are very inefficient compared to CFL or LEDs. LEDs can be run directly off your battery system avoiding energy loss in an inverter and will use 1/6 or less the power that the halogen bulbs are using to give the same amount of light.
4. A router may be a small load, but running it constantly during the night adds up fast. Get a KillAWatt meter and see just what your daily loads are before investing any money in upgrading the system.

Thank you all for the comments:

Tomorrow i will hookup the 2x100ah batteries, I wont be home tomorrow so they can charge all day, and going to disconnect the 120ah,

Going for led instead of halogen... Good idea.. Have to look in that.

Am not running inverters for AC, everything is DC also the routers and stuff (just cut the cord from the wallwart)

[Mike90250]

First - look at your current electric bill, and see what the monthly KWh usage is. You likely pay 20 cents or less, per Kwh used.
Second, 400 W of PV will not go very far, even with small loads, you see how fast the batteries go flat. Add the cost of 2 batteries a year, and being very limited in what you can do with 400w of panels, and you will find the Grid much less expensive than batteries.