Enphase Battery?

[peakbagger]

Technically all the technology is out there for Hawaii to meet their goal, economically it is another story. The reason folks are installing PV in Hawaii is that fossil power is expensive and that residential solar power is currently cheaper to produce from the owners perspective. Unfortunately the solar folks are getting a free ride from all the other rate payers as someone needs to supply backup power at night and during cloudy conditions plus supply peak power. That's going to require deployment of expensive power storage along with fairly draconian demand side management. Demand side management is near instantaneous pricing, if the sun is out, power is cheap, if the sun is not the power rate rapidly goes up to the point where most users elect to shed load and the remaining ones fund the cost to build operate and maintain the electric storage infrastructure.

Most off grid folks know the rules, spend a lot of money up front to maximize efficiency and buy the biggest battery bank they can afford, then practice load side management. Tie major power usage to when sun is available and the batteries are charged. Of course most folks also have a fossil fueled backup generator for the inevitable long cloudy stretch in winter. That works fine on a small scale but the general range of dollars per KW for such a lifestyle is generally reported as 60 to 90 cents per KW long term. Dangle 30 cents per KW in front of a developer and he will be clearing a site for the battery bank the next day.

[russ]

As for turning the tables I think you're confusing me with you. I asked a question and instead of offering up an answer you ask me questions. If you don't believe me, check out your own reply above.

You asked a question for which there is no answer today - a dumb question in reality.

The 97% you refer to - do you give lawmakers credit for knowing their ass from a hole in the ground? If so you give them too much credit. They vote for what gets them re-elected - whether it makes sense or not. Remember - most are probably lawyers which gives them a terrible disadvantage as far as having any common sense.

[Samsolar]

It takes many years for a new tech to go from the lab to the market.

You tell us what cars, TVs or telephones will be in twenty years while you are at it.

Hawaii is different than elsewhere? Only in that power cost is high. As I remember from when I was stationed there in the 60's there are times with not too much sun.

You are attempting to turn the tables because you "don't know" but want to appear to have at least average intelligence it seems.

Russ, I'm asking the question because most would think that guessing where technology will be along with the economics of various energy sources in 30 years (on an island chain in the middle of the Pacific) is a wild guess at best. I'm only asking for the data that was used to draw to a certain conclusion. As for turning the tables I think you're confusing me with you. I asked a question and instead of offering up an answer you ask me questions. If you don't believe me, check out your own reply above.

As for Hawaii being different, yes, yes it is. Why? Because from the article, 97% of lawmakers voted FOR this initiative. Whether you agree with the idea or not, it is clear that for some reason Hawaii wants this. I don't think for a minute that we'd get anywhere near that level of support where I live or in many parts of the world, but they did. While current energy costs certainly factor into this, I'm sure they are very aware that they are completely at the mercy of markets external to Hawaii with little control over what they will pay for fuel in the future. Transitioning to RE sources offers them a level of control/stability that they do not have today.

[russ]

Just be clear, you feel you have a handle on what RE in Hawaii will look like in 30 years? I'll raise my hand and say I don't, but since you do, please tell us how each of the horses in the energy race will be doing. How much will storage systems cost in 30 years? A barrel of oil? Environmental regs?

It takes many years for a new tech to go from the lab to the market.

You tell us what cars, TVs or telephones will be in twenty years while you are at it.

Hawaii is different than elsewhere? Only in that power cost is high. As I remember from when I was stationed there in the 60's there are times with not too much sun.

You are attempting to turn the tables because you "don't know" but want to appear to have at least average intelligence it seems.

[Samsolar]

What is foolish is that when they go 100% renewable they will have a choice of going dark at night, running off very expensive "storage" systems or firing up them fossil fuel generators.

RE is not and IMO will not be a 24/7 energy producer for many decades. So if you decide to visit Hawaii in 2045 I would suggest you bring a flashlight. Your gona need it.

Just be clear, you feel you have a handle on what RE in Hawaii will look like in 30 years? I'll raise my hand and say I don't, but since you do, please tell us how each of the horses in the energy race will be doing. How much will storage systems cost in 30 years? A barrel of oil? Environmental regs?

[russ]

It's really not that foolish, since they need to import any other fuels from the mainland.

Not foolish - total stupidity!

[SunEagle]

It's really not that foolish, since they need to import any other fuels from the mainland.

What is foolish is that when they go 100% renewable they will have a choice of going dark at night, running off very expensive "storage" systems or firing up them fossil fuel generators.

RE is not and IMO will not be a 24/7 energy producer for many decades. So if you decide to visit Hawaii in 2045 I would suggest you bring a flashlight. Your gona need it.

[emartin00]

LOL. What foolishness.

It's really not that foolish, since they need to import any other fuels from the mainland.

[Sunking]

More real life:

Hawaii has become the first state to mandate a move to 100% renewable energy. In a 74-2 vote by the Hawaiian legislature, lawmakers have passed a bill that requires the state to be 100% dependent on renewable energy by the year 2045.

http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/2...-energy-effort

LOL. What foolishness.

[bberry]

Aloha

More real life:

Hawaii has become the first state to mandate a move to 100% renewable energy. In a 74-2 vote by the Hawaiian legislature, lawmakers have passed a bill that requires the state to be 100% dependent on renewable energy by the year 2045.

http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/205804-hawaii-pushes-ambitious-renewable-energy-effort

[russ]

Dubai still has a lot of oil and off shore gas for only 2 million people. A gas expert? They have very limited gas supply in reality - one of the poor emirates in that regard.

Ironically, the crash of oil prices has postponed the Saudi's major solar electrification project. Their society is deep in the red with $60 oil. Deep in the red? Not really, they just don't have extra cash to throw at things.

In related news today, from the Wall Street Journal:

Consumers should be paying a whopping $5 trillion more a year for energy to cover the hidden health and environmental costs of using fossil fuels, the International Monetary Fund said Monday. Quoting the IMF? A ploitical organization on something like this?

Yes, the International Monetary Fund. A group primarily consisting of the developed world's heavyweight bankers and economists. Your typical "greenies". Five trillion is about six percent of world GDP. Drink the koolaid!

http://blog-imfdirect.imf.org/2015/0...bsidy-problem/

Please try to get a bit of real life into your mind.

[SunEagle]

Dubai still has a lot of oil and off shore gas for only 2 million people.

Ironically, the crash of oil prices has postponed the Saudi's major solar electrification project. Their society is deep in the red with $60 oil.

In related news today, from the Wall Street Journal:

Consumers should be paying a whopping $5 trillion more a year for energy to cover the hidden health and environmental costs of using fossil fuels, the International Monetary Fund said Monday.

Yes, the International Monetary Fund. A group primarily consisting of the developed world's heavyweight bankers and economists. Your typical "greenies". Five trillion is about six percent of world GDP.

http://blog-imfdirect.imf.org/2015/0...bsidy-problem/

And how much are people paying to cover health issues from smoking, alcohol, drugs, over eating, etc. Do you think that environmental issues from fossil fuels is the big ticket item?

If you want to see less pollution then stop using electricity and purchasing finished products. You also contribute to those environmental health costs but IMO aren't doing anything personally to reduce them.

[bberry]

I don't think Dubai has much oil, or CH4 for that matter.

Dubai still has a lot of oil and off shore gas for only 2 million people.

Ironically, the crash of oil prices has postponed the Saudi's major solar electrification project. Their society is deep in the red with $60 oil.

In related news today, from the Wall Street Journal:

Consumers should be paying a whopping $5 trillion more a year for energy to cover the hidden health and environmental costs of using fossil fuels, the International Monetary Fund said Monday.

Yes, the International Monetary Fund. A group primarily consisting of the developed world's heavyweight bankers and economists. Your typical "greenies". Five trillion is about six percent of world GDP.

http://blog-imfdirect.imf.org/2015/05/18/act-local-solve-global-the-5-3-trillion-energy-subsidy-problem/

[russ]

That's good Duke is at least is making some effort.

It is amusing to read about Tuscon Electric wanting to expand with gas turbines. Even the National Bank of Dubai thinks that is a stupid move. When the oil rich middle east is going solar, it's time for southern Arizona to wake the hell up.

I'm thinking that investors are insisting on a storage strategy, for which enphase is not well suited. The stock has been volatile, even with the company seemingly doing good sales.

Duke is in the eyewash business to pacify green fools - nothing more

For peaking power you want solar panels? Not very bright - you would probably be the first to bitch when you flipped the switch and nothing comes - due to lack of solar resource at a given moment.

Investors? You mean some whiny green loud mouths? Not real investors for sure.

[J.P.M.]

I don't think Dubai has much oil, or CH4 for that matter.