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Can any MPPT Charge Controller revive a dead Lithium Iron Phosphate battery?

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  • Can any MPPT Charge Controller revive a dead Lithium Iron Phosphate battery?

    I'm looking for a 30 to 40 Amp MPPT charge controller for my new lithium Iron Phosphate batteries. I've heard some can revive a lithium battery that has been run down too far. Does anyone know of a controller that can do this? The only one I found is a 40 amp Renogy controller and it's out of stock. I'd really like to have this option, just in case. I also looked for an automotive type charger with this feature but no luck. I'd consider either. Any suggestions? Thanks

  • #2
    If you have run a Li battery too low, you have damaged it irreversibly. That's why chargers will refuse to charge a overdischarged battery, it is a time bomb and can internally short 3 days after being fully charged. Boom !!

    Fun reading:
    https://batteryuniversity.com/index....w_temperatures
    https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/..._battery_table
    https://www.electricrcaircraftguy.co...ged-LiPos.html (scroll down to the flaming battery)
    LiPo_Fire_August_15_2009_002.jpg
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

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    • #3
      So are these charge controllers that claim to revive a dead lithium iron phosphate battery BS? I know it's true for Lithium ion batteries but what about the iron phosphate ones? Every manufacturer claims you can run them down 100% and they can still be revived.

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      • #4
        Reviving any Li chemistry battery from dead is a gamble. Without a proper balancing charger you have the chance of over volt-aging one of the cells which can start a heat chain reaction.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by SunEagle View Post
          .......over volt-aging one of the cells which can start a heat chain reaction.
          Like venting flame !!

          Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
          || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
          || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

          solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
          gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Mike90250 View Post

            Like venting flame !!
            I always use a flame proof bag to charge my LiPo's but I am not sure about the Li Phosphate type.

            Still any Li battery does not like uneven charging and usually results in the release of them flames.

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            • #7
              I can see a regular battery charger being a real danger with these batteries but do you all think those mppt charge controllers that claim to be able to revive a discharged lithium phosphate are dangerous too given the low and slow charging rate? Would I be better off just getting a controller without this feature?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by AL1952 View Post
                I can see a regular battery charger being a real danger with these batteries but do you all think those mppt charge controllers that claim to be able to revive a discharged lithium phosphate are dangerous too given the low and slow charging rate? Would I be better off just getting a controller without this feature?
                Any manufacturer can provide all of the assurances that a customer will be happy with but the proof is how well will the product work 100% of the time.

                IMO unless you have some internal software that provides cell balance then reviving or even charging a Li battery is a gamble.

                Comment


                • #9
                  The Reviving feature you seek is a sales gimmick and an up-sale product. Not going to get into the foolishness of such devices but there is no magic going on. Any battery that has been over discharged, might be able to be put back in service, but Revived they are not. They are damaged and dangerous.

                  Like I said no magic, just simple constant current source charger set to C/100 charge rate. A Trickle charger, turns your 1000 watt system into a 10 watt system. Al they do is apply a very slow charge until the cell voltage reaches roughly 2.5 to 2.7 volt range. If the cell recovers, reaches 2.5 volts, then full charge current is applied.

                  Here is what is so dangerous. When Lithium cells are over discharged, they fail shorted. Where most all other chemistries fail open circuit. A shorted cell only does one thing when you either try to charge it, or adjacent cell force discharge current through them, they generate HEAT. A lot of heat.

                  So you might be able to force the battery back into service. Make no mistake about it, you have a damaged cell or cells, and when lithium fails can result in a fire you cannot extinguish easily. Water will just make it mad. Your playing with fire and a loaded gun.

                  There is one group of folks I know who actually try to revive lithium batteries and started this nonsense you Charlie Brown's picked up on. Difference is they know full well of the dangers, risk involved, and how to mitigate them. RC Toy Freaks like myself who fly planes and head chopper offers. But we would never allow such batteries in the house or take a nap within 10-feet of them.

                  So I say go for it, they work Charlie Brown.
                  MSEE, PE

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I asked a question because I didn't know the answer. Sunking says to "go for it" after explaining how dangerous it is which makes no sense, and says something about Charlie Brown which makes even less sense. The rest of you agree about the danger of the fire hazard involved with trying to revive a dead lithium battery so I'm not moving in this direction anymore. I'll just get a regular MPPT controller and won't waste my money on some BS sales gimmick. Thanks for all the useful information. Now I know.

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