Acid batteries

[Phil T]

It was a suggestion of the solar guy. Like ibdaud I won't be using him again.
caps staying on now
thanks again for all the advice

[Xplode]

Hydrogen and oxygen gas will not recombine on its own in FLA batteries, even with the caps on. The exception is if you use expensive special caps that contain a layer of catalyst which promotes recombination. The reason to keep the caps on is not to prevent loss of gases, but to prevent spattering of liquid electrolyte, water and sulfuric acid. This will cause corrosion around the battery and will require eventual refilling with acid as well as pure water to restore the elecrtrolyte level and concentration.
AGM and GEL batteries do not use open vents, however small. They use valves (Valve Regulated Lead Acid = VRLA) which maintain a reasonable pressure inside which, possibly in combination with a catalyst, allows the hydrogen and oxygen to recombine. Trying to apply an equalizing charge to a VRLA battery will electrolyze water faster than the gas produced can recombine, which will force the valves open and deplete the very limited amount of electrolyte contained in the battery.

Thanks for the info. I'm assuming that you're not disagreeing with the statement to leave the caps on tho? I don't see a reason to have the caps off during charging - seems unnecessarily unsafe.

[inetdog]

Don't take the caps off while charging. You'll let excessive gas out that would otherwise recombine and stay in the battery. The caps are designed to vent a little, but not all.

Hydrogen and oxygen gas will not recombine on its own in FLA batteries, even with the caps on. The exception is if you use expensive special caps that contain a layer of catalyst which promotes recombination. The reason to keep the caps on is not to prevent loss of gases, but to prevent spattering of liquid electrolyte, water and sulfuric acid. This will cause corrosion around the battery and will require eventual refilling with acid as well as pure water to restore the elecrtrolyte level and concentration.
AGM and GEL batteries do not use open vents, however small. They use valves (Valve Regulated Lead Acid = VRLA) which maintain a reasonable pressure inside which, possibly in combination with a catalyst, allows the hydrogen and oxygen to recombine. Trying to apply an equalizing charge to a VRLA battery will electrolyze water faster than the gas produced can recombine, which will force the valves open and deplete the very limited amount of electrolyte contained in the battery.

[Phil T]

Yet another useful tip from a so called solar engineer like all the other bits of BS hes been telling me.
so even if they are fizzing a great deal the caps must stay on. {got it}
I doubt I will be calling on his services again.
So the reading I got today of 113AH on my mate 3 panel doesnt really mean much.
I also read that cleaning the terminal and the bridges they have can help with the charging process is this the case and when I have googled images all the bridges between the connections are covered either with insulating tape or similar. the ones we have are exposed metal.

[Xplode]

Don't take the caps off while charging. You'll let excessive gas out that would otherwise recombine and stay in the battery. The caps are designed to vent a little, but not all.

[Phil T]

Thanks gala I agree regarding the Muppet of a so called solar engineer but it's not uncommon for people to think they have a trade when clearly they don't.
the batteries charged great today but again the power went off a couple of hours after the sun went down.
the only difference I noticed today was the AH reading was higher than it has been for a while.a couple of weeks ago it was at around 60ah where as today it read 113ah. No idea what that's all about
I took the caps off the 2 bad batteries for an hour today while charging to reduce the gas level in each. But now I have the generator on its back to fizzy water. Guess the batteries have had it unless there is a way to bring them back.
thanks for the advice

[Bala]

Battery not holding charge, cells gassing, age, all indicate that those gassing cells have failed.

What your solar person?? has told you does no make sense, If the hydrometer readings were the same then there was no reason to advise an equalise.

If you have a hydrometer and volt meter test you can do all the testing yourself.

[Phil T]

All readings with hydrometer were the same
I believe I have 2 over active batteries so is there a way to calm them down. I've checked them again this morning and they are both have fizzing water in them (Not bubbling)

[Bala]

If you use a hydrometer to test them you will find you have 2 dead batteries. Ten years would be considered very good life span.

Do not add new batteries to this bank, shop for a new set.

[Xplode]

Read the sticky posts in the battery forums. They cover a lot of detail on the different phases of charging and will help you better understand what your guy is telling you.

29.3v didn't sound too high to me, for normal conditions for an equalize, But with two cells failing, it's going to cause them to gas more.

Hopefully a more experienced battery guru can chime in.

[Phil T]

Sorry to be a pain but I have remembered something.
the solar guy said to equalize the batteries and raised the voltage from 28.4 to 29.3
was this correct?
when I now have to put the generator on the 2 batteries in question fizz a lot more than the others so. Could this have been a cause of how the batteries are performing now?

[Phil T]

Thanks for that. The turbine is definitely a 24v one even though I don't think that's been 8nstalled correctly so that's my next job. The batteries will be around 10 years old as I don't think the previous owner of the house will have replaced them prior to us taking the house on.
I will look to the prices of replacing them but no doubt it won't be cheap.
many thanks for all the advice I have received on here it's much appreciated

[Xplode]

Well a wind turbine would need to be 24v to work with your system, so that is ok.

As for adding batteries to the existing bank, that's generally regarded as a bad idea. I would see if you can find out how old the batteries are and if there is any warranty. It's possible the batteries are already several years old and due to be replaced.

And definitely don't run 10 battery only, you will definitely damage the rest of them

[Phil T]

I disconnected the 2 bad batteries wbich causes the remaining batteries to bubble vigorously which worried me a bit so I have connected them back up to how they were as I don't want to damage the remaining batteries. Unless the 2 bad batteries can be rectified it looks like I will have to purchase 2 new ones.
I forgot to mention that there is also a air x wind turbine attached to the system and unsure if this works although it is a 24v one and not a 12v one as the solar guy pointed out. I think he gives false information as he earns money every time he comes out to us.

[Phil T]

That seems to be what is happening explode and the set up is as you said Ampster.
so basically those 2 batteries have had it or is there a way to get them sorted?
thanks again for all the advice