EV batteries for energy storage
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Anyone know some good crow seasonings / recipes ? I think Sunking blew this one, which is why I say he's nearly always right. -
Dang, can't post the link. Search "model 3 batteries cobalt volkswagen."
Comment from the page:
"This is factually incorrect. Panasonic has provided the original manufacturing equipment, the license to the original chemistry, and processes to build the cells today. The chemistry used by Tesla today is not sold in any Panasonic batteries sold today since it is exclusive to Tesla and hence is why all other manufacturers are trying to come up with their own composition. Panasonic involvement today is solely aiding in battery production and quality checks. They may end up having to license it through Tesla.
Tesla has a chemistry RD department that parents over the multiple subsidiaries and contracts with other international entities. This is headed by Green Bay Wisconsin raised, JB Straubel. Think of it more as a hybrid between traditional chemistry R&D and contractual outsourcing. About 2/3 of the department budgetary goes to a fluctuating, currently, 19 different partnerships and contracted engineering organizations that focuses explicitly on battery chemistry and process."
In other words, it's not a Panasonic NCR18650B.
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Actually the new Tesla Model 3 battery uses their newly developed 2170 cells
https://evannex.com/blogs/news/tesla-s-battery-pack-is-both-mysterious-and-alluring-work-in-progressTesla's quest for a fantastic future consistently delivers surprising breakthroughs within the auto sector — popularizing long range EVs is one of those game-changing developments and the Model 3 battery pack takes it to a whole new level according to one battery expert. Above: A look inside the Tesla Model 3 courtesy of Jack Rickard (Image: EVTV) The Model 3 battery pack uses Tesla's next generation 2170 cells (21mm width, 70mm height) that contain 30 - 33% more energy when compared with previous generation 18650 cells. Tesla and Panasonic's joint R&D efforts made the new 2170 battery cell possible. This next generation battery is more efficient, simpler and easier to maintenance — yielding the new, groundbreaking Model 3 battery pack. So let's dive into the details. According to a seasoned electric vehicle battery expert, Tesla Model 3's battery pack is a true engineering marvel and work of art — as evidenced in a comprehensive Model 3 battery pack disassembly video by the renowned (and animated) EV pro Jack Rickard of EVTV. Even though Jack has been working on electric vehicles for years, he was floored by the Model 3 battery pack noting:
A teardown video featuring Tesla Model 3’s 2170 lithium-ion battery cell was recently uploaded on YouTube, showing the components of the cylindrical cell and how it stacks up against the Model S and Model X’s 18650 battery cell. Aries RC, a channel dedicated to battery improvements in the remote control aircraft market, indicated that they […]
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Liar? I agree the chemistry is Nickel/Cobalt/Aluminum Oxide and the dimensions are 18mm by 65mm.
How are you so sure Tesla has not changed the chemistry of the electrolyte? How do you know they are not NCR18650A or NCR18650BE or a custom arrangement with Panasonic? I notice you have taken the "B" off of your description. Does that mean you agree that what Tesla uses is different than the cut sheet you provided earlier?
How do you explain the fact that Tesla guarantees the packs in the car for 8 years?
What is not shown on the spec sheet is that when you partially charge and discharge, degradation of the battery capacity is reduced. Thus, you can do over 40 000 charge/discharge cycles when going from 30% to 70% only. Or over 35 000 charge/discharge cycles from 20% to 80%; 28 000 cycles from 10% to 90%; 15 000 cycles from 8% to 92%, 7500 cylces from 6% to 94%, and the capacity reduction goes faster and faster, finally reaching 500 cycles when recharging from 0% to 100%.
You have said yourself that this is how they get more life out of these batteries. Is that not true?Last edited by Ampster; 03-31-2019, 12:52 PM.Leave a comment:
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Tesla uses a Panasonic NCR18650 cell Ampster. and you are proven liar.Leave a comment:
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Tesla keeps some of that information closely held. From various sources I believe they have changed the electrolyte to get longer life. There may have also been subtle changes to anode or cathode. I have even less information about the new larger cells used in the Model 3.Last edited by Ampster; 03-30-2019, 03:14 PM.Leave a comment:
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Yeah, so you experts didn't cover the differences of the hi or low dis/recharge rate types of the 18650's What type does Tesla use?Leave a comment:
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Points have been made for anyone to make up their own mind, no need to pour oil on the fireLeave a comment:
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Yep. And field data indicates that at 160,000 miles, Tesla batteries still hold 90% of their original capacity.
https://cleantechnica.com/2018/04/16...-500000-miles/Last edited by Ampster; 03-29-2019, 10:48 PM.Leave a comment:
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A group of European drivers report that battery degradation for their Tesla automobiles has been lower than expected. They predict the battery in a Model S or Model X will still have 80% capacity after 500,000 miles.
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Here is the battery cut sheet for Tesla battery. Go ahead and please look. Tell us they claim more than 500 cycles. I dare you.Last edited by Ampster; 03-29-2019, 04:16 PM.Leave a comment:
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You cannot find one EV forum where I have anything to say negative about Li batteries other than the obvious facts. In an EV Li is the only real option. So stop you lying and quit making things up. If you would bother to look at very simple battery cut sheets, you would know Li battery cycle life is on the order of 400 to 1000 cycles at 80% DOD. So stop your BS.
Here is the battery cut sheet for Tesla battery. Go ahead and please look. Tell us they claim more than 500 cycles. I dare you.
Last edited by Sunking; 03-31-2019, 10:21 AM.Leave a comment:
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Indeed, whenever possible, Lithium Ion battery are never fully charged or fully discharge to maximize their life span
The volt for example only uses 14kWh out of its 16 kWh pack for that very reason (never fully discharging nor fully charging the pack)
So you will never see true full discharge cycle for them.
But that is of course irrelevant in terms of evaluating the real use condition lifespan of the battery.Leave a comment:
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EV batteries get their many cycles by de-rating the battery capacity and only using the middle portion (30-80% ) of the cell capacity, as I understand it, the deeper the cycles, the less cycles you get.Leave a comment:
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