True Deep Cycle AGM Batteries.

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  • Sunking
    Solar Fanatic
    • Feb 2010
    • 23301

    True Deep Cycle AGM Batteries.

    Normally the title is an Oxymoron as AGM are not what IEEE, IEC, DIN, or BCI would call a True Deep Cycle Battery. I have been reading 3rd party test results, claims, reviews for a few years on a product line of a trusted USA battery manufacture. Finally got my paws on a set and ran some test on an analyzer and got some very good results. Wish they were mine, but they are a friend of mine down here in Panama. He bought a set of Trojan Reliant AGM T-105 batteries. He has a set of 8 for his golf cart.

    As of now Trojan only offers them today as AGM T-105 and L16-AGM. Time will tell but it looks promising these are a solid 5 year AGM battery, about twice of any other high end AGM. Only real competitor would be Concorde at much higher price points.

    Now what got my attention about them is the Internal Resistance. That may not mean much to most of you but it tells you how they perform under heavy loads and charging. Example the AGM T-105 is 1.9 milli-ohms. What that means is this battery can deliver 160 Amps of current with only 5% voltage drop. That is a full 1C discharge meaning 160 amps for 1 hour. Put that in your golf cart and you have some serious acceleration matching that of LiFeP04 cells of comparable capacity. Although they do not spec CCA or CA one can calculate what it would be or at least CA = 3.6 volts / .0019 Ohms = 1890 Amps CA. The AGM L16 is equally impressive with .0016 Ohms. .

    Now while the Trojan may not have the lowest Internal Resistance of AGM's on the market because they are not, they are the only True AGM Deep Cycle Battery out there on the market with a claimed cycle life of 1500 cycles to 50% DOD. What this means to the RE user is they would be an excellent choice for areas with low winter Sun Hours where very high charge rates must be used, or 12 volt applications where very large Inverters can be used like an RV. Example it is possible you could run as high as 1500 watts on a pair of AGM T-105 vs 500 watts in the FLA T-105's version.

    Anyway just thought you might want to know what the best out there is. It rivals Concorde PVX AGM's at 1/2 the price.
    Last edited by Sunking; 05-03-2017, 08:04 PM.
    MSEE, PE
  • J.P.M.
    Solar Fanatic
    • Aug 2013
    • 14926

    #2
    Any idea/ballshot/SWAG on relative prices compared to plain vanilla stuff ? 2X as much, 3/4 more, etc ? etc.

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    • Sunking
      Solar Fanatic
      • Feb 2010
      • 23301

      #3
      Roughly twice the FLA price. If you can find them, AGM T-105 go for $250 to $275. Rob paid $315 down here. In the USA the FLA T-105 goes for $125 to $145. With AGM's you pay twice as much as FLA for a given capacity, so that I expected. The upside is Trojan's Reliant AGM last as long as FLA, whereas most all others only last half as long as FLA.

      Time will tell if Trojan is being straight up on cycle life. Given their history, quality, and reputation I trust them. 90 year track record and being number 1 deep cycle and default battery supplier for all major golf cart manufactures says something.

      Something I learned a long time ago is ask a company, contractor, manufacture, etc who is second best? Chances are in the Battery or Condoms world, at least when it comes to Golf Cart, Ariel Lifts, Floor Machines, and Fork Lift batteries they answer with Trojan.
      Last edited by Sunking; 05-03-2017, 10:43 PM.
      MSEE, PE

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      • J.P.M.
        Solar Fanatic
        • Aug 2013
        • 14926

        #4
        Originally posted by Sunking
        Roughly twice the FLA price. If you can find them, AGM T-105 go for $250 to $275. Rob paid $315 down here. In the USA the FLA T-105 goes for $125 to $145. With AGM's you pay twice as much as FLA for a given capacity, so that I expected. The upside is Trojan's Reliant AGM last as long as FLA, whereas most all others only last half as long as FLA.

        Time will tell if Trojan is being straight up on cycle life. Given their history, quality, and reputation I trust them. 90 year track record and being number 1 deep cycle and default battery supplier for all major golf cart manufactures says something.

        Something I learned a long time ago is ask a company, contractor, manufacture, etc who is second best? Chances are in the Battery or Condoms world, at least when it comes to Golf Cart, Ariel Lifts, Floor Machines, and Fork Lift batteries they answer with Trojan.
        Time will tell I suppose.

        Thank you.

        Comment

        • BackwoodsEE
          Solar Fanatic
          • Jun 2017
          • 217

          #5
          Trojan also just came out with its Solar AGM line, claiming around 1700 cycles at 50% DOD. (4500 cycles at 20% DOD.) These are pretty much FLA numbers! I'd bet that calendar life is still not as long for these, though.

          They don't seem to be available yet; the only place I could get a price from via the Google machine was $490 for a 6V 375 Ah battery from SolarBiz. Their web page for the battery says, "Available soon. Please call for more information."

          Comment

          • SunEagle
            Super Moderator
            • Oct 2012
            • 15125

            #6
            Originally posted by BackwoodsEE
            Trojan also just came out with its Solar AGM line, claiming around 1700 cycles at 50% DOD. (4500 cycles at 20% DOD.) These are pretty much FLA numbers! I'd bet that calendar life is still not as long for these, though.

            They don't seem to be available yet; the only place I could get a price from via the Google machine was $490 for a 6V 375 Ah battery from SolarBiz. Their web page for the battery says, "Available soon. Please call for more information."
            They are probably still in Beta testing before they can be available to the public.

            Actually I have been waiting to see if Trojan gets into other battery chemistries to see how they can keep the market share. There seems to be a lot of companies pursuing the Li-x chemistry and if they can ever get the price down then I would say the FLA companies need to look out for the competition.

            Comment

            • Sunking
              Solar Fanatic
              • Feb 2010
              • 23301

              #7
              Originally posted by BackwoodsEE
              They don't seem to be available yet; the only place I could get a price from via the Google machine was $490 for a 6V 375 Ah battery from SolarBiz. Their web page for the battery says, "Available soon. Please call for more information."
              FWIW if it were my money needing AGM, and I do own a few for special purposes is Concorde Sun Extender line and Odyssey Performance series.

              What sets these two apart is they use pure lead, no alloys like Lead Calcium or Lead Antimony. Concorde invented the AGM for military aircraft and the only battery you will find in military aircraft. They make 3 lines of consumer grade batteries. Sun Extender, Chairman, and Lifeline for RV and Marine.

              These batteries will pack a punch. FWIW Concorde even makes MIL SPEC Lithium Ion batteries meeting USN CH-53K.
              Last edited by Sunking; 07-04-2017, 04:54 PM.
              MSEE, PE

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              • BackwoodsEE
                Solar Fanatic
                • Jun 2017
                • 217

                #8
                I just took a look at the Concordes: Total battery cost (48V) is $5073, roughly 400 Ah (20 hr). Claimed 50% DOD cycle life is x1000.

                Comparing that to the Surrette-Rolls S6-460AGM: Total cost $4300, 415 Ah. Claimed 50% DOD cycle life is x1400. Really liking this option right now, at least in the absence of Trojan's Solar AGMs.

                The Trojan Reliants (originally what this topic was about) are also tempting: Total cost of $4055, 370 Ah. (That's just slightly more per Ah than the Surrettes.) I haven't found anything from Trojan on cycle life of these, but the 50% DOD x1500 you cite is very impressive.

                Since weight matters to me not at all and size only a little bit, and I really don't want to have to worry that much about the garage going below freezing when it gets to -10 F outside, I'm favoring one of these over the CALB LiFePO4 option ($4208 total cost for 180 Ah). Also, no balancing and less over/under charging worries. A supposed advantage of LFP is that you can deeply discharge and get the claimed 2000 cycles, but that would seem to be negated by the need to keep under 70% SOC for decent calendar life. So, the cost still seems to favor AGM.

                One thing I'm glad of either way: I'm not gonna be standing outside with a hydrometer, gloves, and face shield every month or so messing around with sulfuric acid. No thanks.

                Comment

                • Sunking
                  Solar Fanatic
                  • Feb 2010
                  • 23301

                  #9
                  BackwoodsEE here is the best tip I can give you with judging battery cycle life. Ignore all claims of Cycle vs DOD. It is a numbers game done in a lab on accelerated testing. There is a couple of exceptions I will get to in a minute. What you want to look at is WARRANTY. That will tell you the real life span. Trojan warranty is real simple to figure out. They make 1, 2, 5, and 8 year batteries.

                  Rolls is also fairly easy to figure out. They make 1, 2, 5, 7, and 10 year batteries.

                  Cycle life does come into play. Use 300 cycles per year. So if you have a 5 year battery warranty, look how deep you can discharge it to get 1500 cycles.

                  Understand the game rules?

                  EDIT NOTE:

                  There is one battery that stands head and shoulders above all others. Or I should say one real life test standard only one battery can stand up to and verified by 3rd party testing agency. There is a Real Life Test Protocol IEC 61427. Trojan has a Free Download of the standard. Trojan is very proud because they are one of the very few battery manufactures that have allowed 3rd party testing of their Premium and Industrial product lines. We are talking real 7 and 17 year batteries. Bad news for you is they are FLA.
                  Last edited by Sunking; 07-04-2017, 07:34 PM.
                  MSEE, PE

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