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  • #16
    Originally posted by SunEagle View Post

    It still comes down to what it costs to purchase equipment to generate power for your appliances or to purchase that power from your POCO even if they are nasty.

    If you want to be totally off grid then that is a choice to be made. But for most places generating any of your power is more expensive the purchasing that power from the POCO. The choice is yours along with the lifestyle that comes along with only running appliances during the day light and not running anything that is not critical to your life at night. It can be done but for most of our US population (especially with teenagers) reducing your electric consumption is worse then getting your wisdom teeth pulled without any novacaine.
    Of course it is about value for everyone which is only expressed in dollars for most. But their are even dollar nuances that can't be captured by a calculation on what it will cost to purchase generation equipment versus purchasing energy from the utility long term (one is like buying cookware and the other is like eating out every day). Dollar comparisons will also depend on many assumptions on both sides of the equation. Owning equipment provides a level of control in decision making and theoretically a fixed cost long term (the exact reason why utilities themselves are electively hedging with wind energy contracts). Purchasing from the utility sometimes means paying a "fair share" tax to cover poor utility decision making regarding nuclear plant decisions, pension liabilities, etc. I get that some here don't think net metering is fair when considering the utility cost to deliver, but it seems silly to suggest that we should always pay these corporations whatever they claim they need to continue delivering profit or revenue growth in the case of "non-profits".

    No doubt most well in line with consumerism mentality are going to be better off purchasing from a utility with bulk generating/purchasing power. But maybe there is a better path for those who are keyed in and have the opportunity to do something better (like reducing their energy needs when building or replacing capital-intensive systems).

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    • #17
      Originally posted by adoublee View Post

      Of course it is about value for everyone which is only expressed in dollars for most. But their are even dollar nuances that can't be captured by a calculation on what it will cost to purchase generation equipment versus purchasing energy from the utility long term (one is like buying cookware and the other is like eating out every day). Dollar comparisons will also depend on many assumptions on both sides of the equation. Owning equipment provides a level of control in decision making and theoretically a fixed cost long term (the exact reason why utilities themselves are electively hedging with wind energy contracts). Purchasing from the utility sometimes means paying a "fair share" tax to cover poor utility decision making regarding nuclear plant decisions, pension liabilities, etc. I get that some here don't think net metering is fair when considering the utility cost to deliver, but it seems silly to suggest that we should always pay these corporations whatever they claim they need to continue delivering profit or revenue growth in the case of "non-profits".

      No doubt most well in line with consumerism mentality are going to be better off purchasing from a utility with bulk generating/purchasing power. But maybe there is a better path for those who are keyed in and have the opportunity to do something better (like reducing their energy needs when building or replacing capital-intensive systems).
      All true.

      IMO the best way to reduce my electric bill is to just use less electricity. Generating power myself just adds to my costs with a very long payback or never getting back what I put into the system.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by SunEagle View Post

        All true.

        IMO the best way to reduce my electric bill is to just use less electricity. Generating power myself just adds to my costs with a very long payback or never getting back what I put into the system.
        well currently, unless i use a generator up there, I am using zero electricity. in winter the pipes freeze and in the warmer months the mold and rot grows, when I am not there every single kilowatt of wind and solar that is not harvested is wasted. if i was a crooked marketing person I could say i was losing thousands in lost revenues due to not getting that power. grid tie is most likely not a possiblity for me, due to a disreputable co-op(that may have changed) and sunking says off grid with batteries is a no-go(and i agree). I suggested just getting panels and let them dump into a ballast load to keep the basement (possibly) slightly warmer than what is was before. supposedly every hour of sunlight I don't harvest is x watts that i wont get back.

        so, suggestions?

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        • #19
          Originally posted by tater1337 View Post
          well currently, unless i use a generator up there, I am using zero electricity. in winter the pipes freeze and in the warmer months the mold and rot grows, when I am not there every single kilowatt of wind and solar that is not harvested is wasted. if i was a crooked marketing person I could say i was losing thousands in lost revenues due to not getting that power. grid tie is most likely not a possiblity for me, due to a disreputable co-op(that may have changed) and sunking says off grid with batteries is a no-go(and i agree). I suggested just getting panels and let them dump into a ballast load to keep the basement (possibly) slightly warmer than what is was before. supposedly every hour of sunlight I don't harvest is x watts that i wont get back.

          so, suggestions?
          I would say your situation is a little different then someone that is grid tied.

          So unless you can get you power from the grid maybe a solution for you would be and off grid solar system but without batteries you still run the risk of not getting enough sunlight you need to keep the pipes unfrozen or the mold in check. Electricity from sunlight is not a 24/7 365day/yr guarantee.

          Without some type of energy storage you may still have issues which then would make all that investment into solar a bust.

          So I would have to ask what is more important to the person, spending money to fix a broken pipes & remove mold or spend the money on a battery system that will not pay for itself (when compared to grid power)?

          IMO while the off grid solar / battery system is money out the door that you will never see again it would be the direction I would go instead of paying to fix broken equipment or having a lower value for my property. Of course there is always the direction of getting connected to the grid which while high in the beginning may actually be cost effective in the long run.

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          • #20
            Drain the pipes and winterize?
            MSEE, PE

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Sunking View Post
              Drain the pipes and winterize?
              Thought i did a good enough job last fall...i didn't.

              still wouldn't address the fact of having energy that I technically own not going to use.

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