Tesla Powerwall, The Specs, Numbers, and Implementation Absolutely Brilliant

[Willy T]

Willy is that you?

Officer, did you get the IP number of that truck?

Blake is that you ? There you go again, you only make yourself look silly and diminish that 35 year old Resume with the dust flying off of it.

NewIPnow.com , 500 IP addresses for $5.00 a month.

Warning I sat on the NEC code panels for 2 cycles, and a moderator on MH NEC code forum. Even taught a few classes for MH.

This was good for a laugh. I hope you didn't get bleacher buns from sitting so long. Weren't you " Dereckbc " then ?

[Mike90250]

I guess when you have no more points to make then you resort to the ad hominem attacks. Sad.

Originally Posted by tehan
I understand there is a very small base of off-grid users who are upset that Powerwall does nothing for them. .....

OK, you explain yourself, in plain english. what is your large base of off grid that is excited about a 300v battery ?

And now, what is your hands-on experience with solar and batteries.

[SunEagle]

OK, you explain yourself, in plain english. what is your large base of off grid that is excited about a 300v battery ?

And now, what is your hands-on experience with solar and batteries.

He might be legally bound not to disclose any data on what SolarEdge is planning so he could associated with that company and therefore passionate about the home battery system.

[tehan]

OK, you explain yourself, in plain english. what is your large base of off grid that is excited about a 300v battery ?

And now, what is your hands-on experience with solar and batteries.

Who said anything about a large base of off-grid? I said the number of off-grid systems was small. That was a mistake: I should have said it's tiny.

My background is in the cable TV and cell phone industries. Both of these serve over 100m US households. According to SEIA, the total number of US residential solar installations is under 650k, or less than 0.5% of US homes. And off-grid is a just a fraction of that. I realize that may look like a large industry from where you sit, sort of like the Matterhorn at Disneyland looks big to a six-year-old. But where I come from, it's small.

I don't believe in argument by authority on the internet. But since you ask, I worked for the largest non-automotive purchaser of lead-acid batteries in the world. Satisfied?

[inetdog]

690.71B. There are exceptions listed there too which I guess Tesla (and your UPS) may fall under.

Yes. The Tesla for one does not require any routine battery maintenance and the battery pack is sealed.
Most off-grid battery systems use 48V maximum because of the reduced complexity of other wiring rules, but it is possible to comply with the conditions of the exception just by putting appropriate caps over the terminal connections or using AGM batteries, which also have no routine maintenance.

[Mike90250]

Who said anything about a large base of off-grid? I said the number of off-grid systems was small. That was a mistake: I should have said it's tiny.

My background is in the cable TV and cell phone industries. Both of these serve over 100m US households. According to SEIA, the total number of US residential solar installations is under 650k, or less than 0.5% of US homes. And off-grid is a just a fraction of that. I realize that may look like a large industry from where you sit, sort of like the Matterhorn at Disneyland looks big to a six-year-old. But where I come from, it's small.

I don't believe in argument by authority on the internet. But since you ask, I worked for the largest non-automotive purchaser of lead-acid batteries in the world. Satisfied?

yes.

[tehan]

Yes. The Tesla for one does not require any routine battery maintenance and the battery pack is sealed.
Most off-grid battery systems use 48V maximum because of the reduced complexity of other wiring rules, but it is possible to comply with the conditions of the exception just by putting appropriate caps over the terminal connections or using AGM batteries, which also have no routine maintenance.

Interesting. I spoke again to my contact and he said a few clarifying things: (1) 690.71B is well known to solar manufacturers and they basically all conform to it, (2) it only applies to solar storage and not to UPS and there was a lot of argument about that, (3) it doesn't apply to lithium because no maintenance is required (same thing you said).

What are the wiring rules you are referring to?

[donald]

I don't believe in argument by authority on the internet. But since you ask, I worked for the largest non-automotive purchaser of lead-acid batteries in the world. Satisfied?

Where will lead acid batteries be used in ten years?

[tehan]

Where will lead acid batteries be used in ten years?

If Musk can deliver on the Gigafactory vision of <$200 per kWh lithium batteries then I would say, as a first approximation, nowhere.

[SunEagle]

If Musk can deliver on the Gigafactory vision of <$200 per kWh lithium batteries then I would say, as a first approximation, nowhere.

Even if a Li-XX battery at < $200/kWh can be developed and commercialized, there will be thousands of places around the world still using LA batteries.

Especially all them preppers that have raised those "free" batteries from the dead.

[tehan]

Even if a Li-XX battery at < $200/kWh can be developed and commercialized, there will be thousands of places around the world still using LA batteries.

Especially all them preppers that have raised those "free" batteries from the dead.

I agree, which is sort of why I said "as a first approximation". Obviously lead-acid has been around forever and there's a lot of it out there. The automotive sector is the one to watch because their purchase volumes dwarf everyone else combined. If they start switching, which would not be hard for them, things could get very interesting very fast.

[rclark]

If Musk can deliver on the Gigafactory vision of <$200 per kWh lithium batteries then I would say, as a first approximation, nowhere.

Bingo. This is a game-changer, and not just for the lithium battery industry, but its competitors as well. It's "adapt or die" time for them.

[SunEagle]

I agree, which is sort of why I said "as a first approximation". Obviously lead-acid has been around forever and there's a lot of it out there. The automotive sector is the one to watch because their purchase volumes dwarf everyone else combined. If they start switching, which would not be hard for them, things could get very interesting very fast.

I agree. Using an Li battery as a starting or drive power source for automotive will grow over the next 10 years. How much and fast is a crap shoot.

I am not sure how quickly lift truck batteries will switch over since the batteries weight is part of the equipment balancing act. And there are other areas that LA has intrenched itself.

The driving force to use LA or Li will come down to the initial cost, lifetime and maintenance.

Understanding LA charging systems is easy compared to Li charging. Of course that might grow a whole new area of expertise.

[Sunking]

I don't believe in argument by authority on the internet. But since you ask, I worked for the largest non-automotive purchaser of lead-acid batteries in the world. Satisfied?

You have never worked for me or with me.

[SunEagle]

You have never worked for me or with me.

The telephone industry is pretty big. Chances are you two would never meet even if you both worked for the same company.