Might as well just close the thread if you're gonna keep deleting posts that call you out... Try posting something useful every now and then...
Tesla announces "Powerwall" batteries
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Do any of you know what Tesla Warranty entails? I did not think so.
But we have an excellent track record from the EV division which has landed Tesla in court. The EV's batteries are warranted for 8 years or 100,000 miles. Sounds great don't it?
Well not until you make a claim as thousands have found out. All Tesla warranty implies is the battery will operate the vehicle. It makes no claims of capacity or performance. Many Tesla owners tested this in court to find out even if your EV only goes 10 miles after a charge, it still works and lost their case.
Tesla even admits to get the claimed mileage requires you to replace the battery every year or every 25K miles whichever comes first, but at your expense, not covered under warranty.
On the flip side Nissan is better as they warrant their battery to retain 80% capacity up to 5 years or 50K miles whichever comes first. So far it has costed them a forutne in warranty claims with the first 3 model years.
I know a lot of you want to believe it, but don't let your blind passion misguide you.
The DOT once required HEV's (EV's too but not sure) to report when their batteries reached 75% SOH. It was a fools requirement that did not take any consideration as to what effect that had on range or vehicle performance. They blindly assumed that the battery could no longer function well at 75% SOH. So instead of investigating real requirements, they 86'd it totally. Knowing that most people throw a perfectly good car away after 2 years...ummmm...see where I'm going with this?
Now transposing that the unregulated energy storage market, who is going to warranty capacity? The fine print will read something like, "You break you buy so sorry." At best some fork tongued grease ball in a fancy suit will promise some "guaranteed" throughput. Which might sound good to the uninformed, but will amount to your green delight battery putting out a third of the power it did the first year you bought it, all the while the manufacture will not honor the warranty because it is technically still providing energy. "Well you can still power your desk light can't you!?"Comment
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Sunking,
Where did you here that Aquion is going bankrupt ?
I will admit that if some serious amounts of product don't materialize
soon those boys are going to begin to look like
All hat, no cattle.
However I thought that they were still at the 'raking in the millions'
stage with the investors.
Bill Blake
Although it isn't a chapter 11 announcement, but it is never a good sign in the startup world when a company that has made 4 product changes since starting production a year ago, starts cutting people. All hat and no cattle indeed.
As for investors...these big money tycoons get bored with Vegas and play roulette with startups. Kleiner Perkins has been looking like degenerate OTB gamblers for the last decade:
After big hits in the dot-com boom, Kleiner Perkins has been sideswiped by a series of lackluster bets in green technology and missed chances in social media.
Fortunately for those guys, Sammy Gravano is not one of their investors.Comment
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Hi Sunking Tzu,
Aqueon Energy still my man - for a little while.
Perhaps they are like the gal in the window in Amsterdam
who ran out on the sidewalk saying
' I give you good position'.
By 2016 we will see what type of position they have put themselves in.
It's a mighty big game they wish to play.
At least it's not an EEStor deal where no one ever gets anything.
There IS a little taste of product here and there.
Amy could probably tell us a bit more - if she feel Likes it
Bill Blake
Bill, I think Sun King is taking some liberties, but my guess is that he is talking about this:
Although it isn't a chapter 11 announcement, but it is never a good sign in the startup world when a company that has made 4 product changes since starting production a year ago, starts cutting people. All hat and no cattle indeed.
As for investors...these big money tycoons get bored with Vegas and play roulette with startups. Kleiner Perkins has been looking like degenerate OTB gamblers for the last decade:
After big hits in the dot-com boom, Kleiner Perkins has been sideswiped by a series of lackluster bets in green technology and missed chances in social media.
Fortunately for those guys, Sammy Gravano is not one of their investors.Comment
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I must admit I find it interesting the level of skepticism among many of the participants on this thread.
Skepticism when a company like Tesla stretch the current technology , stretch the rules and are willing to take the risk of deploying a product like the Powerwall into the marked.
Surly they share the risk with the customers, the early adopters, but so they did with the cars - the cars has proven excellent, and that includes the battery, the charging solutions - the total energy efficiency of it. I am sure there has been warrenty issues - I know at least of one owner getting a new battery after 100.000 km driving, so Tesla do seem to honor their warranty, at least for some.
The cars are not fancy corporate promised BS any longer - they are real. I see them every day on the streets of Oslo, Norway, thousands of them. I have tried one, it was excellent, the user interface is one million time better than my Audi and my previous Volvo.
I would be very surprised if Tesla will not make success with the Powerwall.--------------------
Norwegian off grid cabin owner
Panels facing south
- Kyocera panels 135W
- Tristar 60A MPPT
- Victron 3000w/12V / 120AComment
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Making Product Changes
If making product changes makes an outfit Look bad I guess they
should have executed the King of it, the Legendary Thomas A. Edison.
Not only did he make CONSTANT Changes but has the expensive Patents
to prove it.
Then after countless changes the man closed his battery factory down, dead,
in order to make even more changes.
When World War One came they went into overdrive and spent more money,
brilliance and effort
(in todays dollars) than Aquion Energy has ever seen
just to make even more changes and run more thousands of experiments.
Then Decade after Decade even after his death it was not unusual
for a change to be made to his Nickel Iron Battery.
People around the world are still experimenting with changing the
badhammer well over a Century later as we speaks !
So old Bill says let the changes continue.
We need all the good dat we can get.
Long Live Aquion Energy and everybody else.
In the name of Con Edison, GE and all the Edison Empire
improve and change on the fly.
That's how we got here - no Lie.
Bill BlakeComment
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Skepticism when a company like Tesla stretch the current technology , stretch the rules and are willing to take the risk of deploying a product like the Powerwall into the marked.
Surly they share the risk with the customers, the early adopters, but so they did with the cars - .MSEE, PEComment
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Here's a historical writeup. Looks like Musk did risk quite a bit of his money when it got rough.
Yes, Tesla is on the dole from taxpayers. But it also has something you can't get from the government.
He's been very lucky, too -- but you have to be prepared to make use of luck, so kudos to him for pulling it off so far.Comment
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Here's a historical writeup. Looks like Musk did risk quite a bit of his money when it got rough.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/joannmul...anies-arent/2/
Does that not bother you? Can you not see what is going on? Do you not understand why both Democratic controlled Senate and Congress told Obama to go pound rocks in 2010 when Obama's Cap and Trade law was shot down in flames? They know it is a SCAM and who is at the top of it.MSEE, PEComment
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Brutally honest here, since the mods don't get any sales commission, or any compensation at all.
And I've never figured out this internet bullying thing. we've not taken over your browser, you have an off switch.Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
|| Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
|| VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A
solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-ListerComment
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If Tesla is using the same cells that currently go into the Model S pack, they have many years of experience with them. Those cells are related to the NCR18650BE and Panasonic has tested them. Why do you believe that Panasonic and Tesla have not tested their cells? Do you believe that they don't have the same torture tests that have been running continuously? All the EV manufacturers do this. The cells have been inside automobiles, a far more strenuous environment since 2011, with shipping end user product since mid 2012. Pulse discharge easily in the 4-5C range and Supercharging is about 1.5 to 1.7C.
Of course, you can wait for independent testing lab results. That will take a while. In the meantime, the battery degradation levels for Model S vehicles with > 100,000 miles is pretty impressive.Comment
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That is what we are saying all along - now is not the time to jump.
Contrary to what some would like to think, we are looking forward to better solutions arriving and will be using them as they are available.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Comment
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This article is silly. A retrofit of an automatic natural gas generator will cost a lot more than $2K installed. A Kohler water cooled generator that will run my AC is close to $20K installed. But I can't run my dryer and AC at the same time with that system. The 10 year cost of a maintenance contract on an installed unit will almost double the cost for inexpensive automatic systems.
The author also thinks Tesla introduced two residential battery models. He's obviously not a software guy.
In my experience living five years on an unreliable power grid, I would choose battery plus quality portable generator that does not run AC.
The interesting residential question is how this system compares to higher end FLA in an offgrid system. Not if it competes with cheap backup generators.Comment
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