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  • NOCO genius charger?

    Does anyone have any opinions on the reliability/performance of these chargers? I am looking for a charger that will do a better job of charging my 12v SLA batteries than the proprietary charging circuitry they came with (jump packs and elec. fence controllers). I also plan to use it on a 100ah agm and various vehicle FLAs. At 7.2amps the g7200 model seems compatible with my battery sizes (20-100ah). Are there any semi-affordable ac-dc chargers that offer adjustable set points across the charge steps?

  • #2
    I am using one as the charger for my genset starting battery. It seems to be able to be set up for standard lead acid batteries. And it does remember the settings if there is a power failure (at least for 5 minutes, while it was still connected to the starter battery) They claim to have a good charging cycle to not boil the battery dry. NOCO Genius G3500 6V/12V ( can't remember if I have the 3.5A or the 7amp.)
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Mike90250 View Post
      I am using one as the charger for my genset starting battery. It seems to be able to be set up for standard lead acid batteries. And it does remember the settings if there is a power failure (at least for 5 minutes, while it was still connected to the starter battery) They claim to have a good charging cycle to not boil the battery dry. NOCO Genius G3500 6V/12V ( can't remember if I have the 3.5A or the 7amp.)
      For your listeroid? How's that setup been working for you? I have been reading about them on and off for a few years. Beautiful machines. I almost bought one that George at utter power had listed for someone else. Missed it by a few days.

      Comment


      • #4
        The listeroid 6/1 has been cranking 4 hours a day for the last 3 weeks and has at least one more week to go before the sun may appear. I have an unusual one, with a factory starter and tooth gear on the flywheel. It's been great. While the temps are warm, I hand crank, but when it's below frost, the oil is too thick to hand crank by an old fart with 2 bad rotator cuffs (both shoulders).
        My backup genset is in the factory repair shop 350 miles away, the governor in the Robin/Subaru/Hatz (55 hours on the clock) adjusted itself to 69 Hz and 255VAC and I could not qualify it for charging anymore. The listeroid holds 62hz no load, 59 full load.
        So my costco deep cycle battery is on perpetual float.
        Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
        || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
        || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

        solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
        gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

        Comment


        • #5
          Would you mind if I ask how you found your listeroid? They're like unicorns these days.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by johnro View Post
            Would you mind if I ask how you found your listeroid? They're like unicorns these days.
            I got mine just before the EPA ban.. Can't have folks using efficient, simple engines.
            Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
            || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
            || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

            solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
            gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Mike90250 View Post
              I got mine just before the EPA ban.. Can't have folks using efficient, simple engines.
              The Environmental Profiteering Agency knows what's best for us common folk!

              Comment


              • #8
                The NOCO 7200 is a nice charger giving you manual control over the absorb voltage 14.4 or 14.7v, typically for AGM. It has some smarts, is well built, uses it's own proprietary shaped cabling disconnects (no stupid high-resistance SAE connectors!) and would do a great job for your jump pack.

                If you do use it for that purpose, connect the 7200 to the pack's own cables, which means activating the jumper cable. Of course be VERY careful here with dangling live jumper cables laying about. Using the dc cigarette lighter jack is not the best way to recharge them. I've used a 7200 on my Stanley jumpstarter quite successfully.

                The 7200 is also capable of doing an EQ to a battery, (flooded only please!) and fortunately that takes a special sequence of button pressing to prevent the unwary from doing that by mistake. Normally one charges the battery fully in a normal mode and THEN follows up with the EQ. This EQ is smart, and times out at about 4 hours, so it is not a full EQ by most people's standards. However it does well, and is smart about it - that is if it detects that no progress is really being made with the EQ, it will stop on it's own accord, rather than just time out.

                Float is OK, and I would recommend leaving it on any battery for at least 8-12 hours if you really want to finish the float.

                I like and have used a range of NOCO's which I like, but lately I've favored the Tecmate-Optimate series of chargers for the more extensive testing, low-voltage EQ (oscillating absorb), and smarter float than the NOCO.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Version 2 models

                  Thought I'd do an update since it appears that "version 2" models are out now that add some new features, and change the labeling on others. Now that we have a dedicated 12v subforum, this might be of interest to new users that may be murdering their batteries before they get a handle on proper panel / battery / load sizing.

                  The most obvious addition in Ver-2's is a "Li-Ion" mode. Primarily intended for LiFePo4 powersport users, there is a BIG warning that you had better know what you are doing and take full responsibility for using good quality cells from reputable manufacturers, etc. In this mode, it seems to act like a standard CC/CV charger, that tops out at 14.2v (on my Fluke 87V multimeter) and stops. This is a conservative value for a starting application and not necessarily what I would use for a solar storage application. Advrider has more info about powersports, so I'll stop here.

                  What used to be a trickle-mode, is now an "optimization" mode, whatever that means. When my ver2 G1100 tried to top off a good quality Optima pure-lead, it did a one-time zinger after absorb to 15v, and then went into it's normal maintain mode. Surprised me. Noco does not go into detail on what they do like Optimate does, that's for sure.

                  The 3500 has a lithium mode, and now has the addition of a "repair" mode. As seen on larger models, this used to be the 16v-boost mode, but perhaps that confused most on how to do it, since it really was a two-step process of normal charge first followed by a manual start on the boost mode. I'm not sure if this is still the case, and of course should only be done to flooded. Seems like an addition to the 3500, and a change in nomenclature.

                  Also appearing on the 7200 and up is the "AGM +" mode, but I don't know what the difference is between the older "cold/agm" and "agm +" mode is.

                  The thing that BUGS ME, is that Noco's own website still shows the older models, manuals and all, yet Amazon shows the new models. Some other sites have a new model pic, with old descriptions, and others have old model pic with new descriptions. New models, like the G1100 I picked up on a lark to test, have a user guide, but instruct you to go to the Noco website for the FULL manual. Surprise - only the old version manuals are available. Not that I didn't understand how to operate it, but Optimate got me hooked on documentation, and when that's lacking, a battery-geek like myself takes away one star! Or maybe THREE in the case of Schumachers.

                  If you want one of these you had BETTER be sure you are getting the version you want!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    FLOAT MODE

                    Just for completeness, a warning about the differences between "float monitoring" and a true float-mode.

                    Many automotive chargers such as these don't *really* charge to full, but only to something close, perhaps up to 99%, and the monitor the battery for large parasitic draws or simply let the battery self-discharge down to a lower trigger voltage level before resuming maintenance charging. That might be ok if you are going to put the battery back into service, and let the vehicle (or solar system!) truly finish the charge.

                    BUT, this float-monitoring is not ideal for the ac-powered user with neither a vehicle or solar especially when dealing with agm's.

                    That 1% that doesn't get charged catches up to you over many cycles. That 1% left uncharged basically ends up "walking the capacity" down little by little.

                    Instead of letting a smart charger like this wait for things to happen, like hard sulfation to overcome with special charging procedures, the best bet it to do a MANUAL FLOAT right afterwards.

                    If you have the model G7200 or higher, they come with either a 13.6v maintenance setting, or a 13.6v power supply setting. Here, after a normal charge, just switch modes (power supply mode mandates that the clips are OFF the terminals at first - and now have no safety / spark / reverse polarity protection) - activate the PS mode, and then put the clamps on.

                    Now let the agm float for at least 12 hours. If you measure it, you will see the battery drawing current for float.

                    I just wanted to point this out so that nobody tries to put their agm's into frequent cyclic service relying solely on the Noco (without doing a manual float) for each and every cycle with no vehicle or solar around to actually complete the job once in awhile.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by PNjunction View Post
                      What used to be a trickle-mode, is now an "optimization" mode, whatever that means. When my ver2 G1100 tried to top off a good quality Optima pure-lead, it did a one-time zinger after absorb to 15v, and then went into it's normal maintain mode. Surprised me. Noco does not go into detail on what they do like Optimate does, that's for sure.
                      So I picked up a VER 2 G7200 and tracked it - this time with ammeters as well. Once the charger led is SOLID green for fully charged, it will oscillate or pulse current into the battery for about an hour before the relay drops and float monitoring begins. This oscillating pulse takes it up to 14.7 and once I witnessed it going to 15.1v on both my 38 and 75ah Optima's. Very low current of course and this is basically after absorb.

                      From what I've read, this is supposed to help balance the cells without doing a high-voltage EQ (which you can't do anyway on most agm's).

                      The 3500 has a lithium mode, and now has the addition of a "repair" mode. As seen on larger models, this used to be the 16v-boost mode, but perhaps that confused most on how to do it, since it really was a two-step process of normal charge first followed by a manual start on the boost mode. I'm not sure if this is still the case, and of course should only be done to flooded. Seems like an addition to the 3500, and a change in nomenclature.
                      That's all it is - a nomenclature change, and is still a two-step process of doing a regular charge first, and then following up with what is basically an EQ / desulfation burner. Don't do this on agm's unless you absolutely know what you are doing.

                      Also appearing on the 7200 and up is the "AGM +" mode, but I don't know what the difference is between the older "cold/agm" and "agm +" mode is.
                      Found out that AGM+ is for batteries in "micro-hybrids", which are not totally hybrid, but just have start-stop battery tech - such as at long stoplights. Supposedly takes an agm up to 15.5v built for this purpose. I don't foresee needing this capability, but you never know.

                      Still, we're dealing with chargers primarily intended for the automotive/truck market, and with the stepped CC for safety, may not be ideal for some used to hammering agm's. But if you got the time .... might be worth a look especially the Ver2 models.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Stepped CC for the right reasons

                        Originally posted by PNjunction View Post
                        Still, we're dealing with chargers primarily intended for the automotive/truck market, and with the stepped CC for safety, may not be ideal for some used to hammering agm's. But if you got the time .... might be worth a look especially the Ver2 models.
                        So what does this have to do with solar?

                        It means starting out on the right foot, or at least having the charger tell you that something is wrong and you won't blame your solar installation - especially for the 12v solar experimenters who are getting batteries from auto-parts stores and the like. Huh?

                        If you are used to other common CC/CV chargers that don't step the rate, you might be dismayed to see that the charger isn't providing it's full rated current during charge. So what does this have to do with safety and why?

                        Unseen battery damage that can occur during automotive / truck / racing OR rough handling in the retail chain from distributor to customer, usually in the form of "hot spots". The battery may not be totally unserviceable, but localized thermal issues may go unnoticed by the consumer unless they really hammer the battery. Most aren't going to take the time like we do to put remote thermal temp-probes on it, or watch for it by going over the cells with a handheld IR thermometer.

                        What I'm talking about is off-road banging around with a loose or missing battery hold-downs, exposure to flying rock damage, idiot retailers and customers that swing the batteries around dropping them on the floor, falling off utility hand-carts, or customers that drop them from the storage racks, and then slyly put it back and take another to the sales desk. Flooded usually fail immediately, but be careful with AGM's that can hide this internal damage.

                        This kind of rough treatment may be obvious with a flooded cell, but not so with an AGM. I have witnessed customers do damage to beautiful Optimas, Odysseys, and other agm's that are common in auto-parts stores do this, or jokingly hand it off to their kid, and BAM. On the floor it goes. AND mostly with the smaller to medium sized ones where they don't put a death-grip on it.

                        Tip: look for any beveled edges, especially in the corners or on the sides of Optimas. Unless it is really severe, the case may recover somewhat from a hit, but now you have a potential hot-spot awaiting you. Thing is, the battery *may* be useable in a relatively low-current application like solar

                        And THAT is why I don't mind the Noco's stepped CC - which makes total real-world sense for the primary sales demographic - truck and automotive, or perhaps for those who are dealing with common consumer outlets where poor handling can take place. I'm not going to continuously cycle my cells with these chargers (that's what my solar is for in the first place!), since they are too slow for quick turnarounds, BUT if used as a TOOL, or the occasional preventative maintenance charge, you may not have a bad thermal issue with a slightly damaged battery. If you have the time and your model is capable of the power-supply 13.6v function, give it a good float for say 12 hours, rather than allowing it to do float-monitoring.

                        Am I going to do repeated deep-cycle charging with a stepped-CC charger that can be well below the usual recommended rate? NO. But for the occasional use, or preventative maintenance procedure where we put the battery back into service under solar, no problem.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Lithium charging with VER 2 models

                          The entire line of NOCO Ver2 models, excluding the small 750ma maintainer now has a 12v lithium charge mode, so I was eager to try it out with my new 1100, 7200, and 15000 models.

                          They are basically CC/CV chargers that top out at 14.2v.

                          They also don't go into any detail of how their firmware handles things, and basically state that you had better know what you are doing and consult the battery manufacturer to make sure this is ok. They also don't say that it is ONLY for lifepo4, but since you are expected to know what you are doing, the choice of chemistry is not really spelled out, other than a mention of lifepo4 and that you assume all risk with the charger in this mode. Ok and not unexpected since the average consumer doesn't know differences in lithium chemistries are anyway. For them, all lithium is the same unfortunately.

                          Again, if you are expecting full rated output as shown on the charger, you may be disappointed.

                          For instance, with the 7200 and 15000, whether it is a small Shorai 12v lifepo4 drained to 80% DOD, or my big 40ah GBS battery, current is limited to no more than about 2A. The 1100 drops that to about 500ma with lifepo4. I'm not going to totally drain my cells to see if full rated output is achieved at super low DOD's, which is really not necessary.

                          Since the details of the firmware aren't really spelled out, I can only guess here. Either the CC is being prematurely limited by following a lead-acid curve, or the 2A max that I am witnessing with two different models is to protect the main users of this charger - lifepo4 powersport users whose cells are anywhere from 2.5A to maybe 16ah tops.

                          So, no I won't be using these to do a fast charge on large 4S lifepo4 batteries such as my nicely top-balanced GBS. If I want to play, I have a more suitable hobby iCharger 306B for that anyway - or my solar setup for lifepo4 which works fine.

                          In the end, this CC limitation may not be an issue for the powersport users, or the guys who buy trash batteries of various li-ion chemistries and duct tape them together for their ebike in a 12v configuration - although I don't condone that AT ALL.

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