PURE GEL vs AGM vs GEL batteries

[PNjunction]

The touted difference between a standard AGM Lead Acid battery and a Lead Crystal battery is in the physical and chemical composition of the electrode(s), not the composition of the electrolyte.

That's not what this user application manual from Axcom states - unless I'm reading it wrong, the emphasis is placed mainly on the crystallizing electrolyte used in conjunction with standard agm technology.

(Note - link munged for courtesy)
https://www.axcom-battery-technology..._user_NEU_engl . pdf

Are you perhaps thinking of PBc agm batteries, where the negative plates have carbon / graphite / carbon-graphite additives?

I'm actually playing with one right now, an Exide Edge AGM that uses graphite as the negative plate additive - albeit in the wrong application since it is basically an SLI starter - although they do seem to offer a hybrid faux-deep cycle "edge". Well, for now that is.

Axion (not to be confused with Axcom) uses carbon for pbc
Exide uses graphite for their pbc

For now it looks like PBC is intended for SLI enhancement, and the lead-crystal for deep cycle.

[Sunking]

Axion (not to be confused with Axcom) uses carbon for pbc
Exide uses graphite for their pbc

Do not have any experience with Axion, but 33 years of experience with Exide. The Carbon or PbC battery was originally developed for the EV markets but flopped due to its low Specific Energy density of roughly 30 wh/Kg. No where close to lithium of up to 200 wh/Kg. So as you can imagine if take 600% more weight using lead carbon to get the same energy unit. A 100 mile lithium battery weighs in around 200 to 400 pounds. A PbC would weigh in around 2400 pounds and take up 20 times more space.

Anyway enough about that. My point is Exide is a well know and respected battery manufacture. I never heard of Axion up until a year ago. Guess which one I trust?

[SunEagle]

Do not have any experience with Axion, but 33 years of experience with Exide. The Carbon or PbC battery was originally developed for the EV markets but flopped due to its low Specific Energy density of roughly 30 wh/Kg. No where close to lithium of up to 200 wh/Kg. So as you can imagine if take 600% more weight using lead carbon to get the same energy unit. A 100 mile lithium battery weighs in around 200 to 400 pounds. A PbC would weigh in around 2400 pounds and take up 20 times more space.

Anyway enough about that. My point is Exide is a well know and respected battery manufacture. I never heard of Axion up until a year ago. Guess which one I trust?

What about the "copper top" one. Everyone trusts them.

[inetdog]

(Note - link munged for courtesy)
https://www.axcom-battery-technology..._user_NEU_engl . pdf

You over munged the link (leaving the literal "..." in it instead of the full path), so it does not work even when you merge the ".pdf" back in.

A usable munged reference is this one: "http://www.axcom-battery-technology.de/uploads/media/LC_user_NEU_engl . pdf"

Anyway, based on that information, it looks like the electrolyte really is still H₂SO₄ but rather than the acid being in the form of a water solution the H₂O part of the electrolyte gets bound up in the form of SiO₂ hydrates (I prefer that term to crystal, as crystal carries a lot of connotations for people which can be misleading.)

[PNjunction]

Well, I just checked out a private-label Deltec 6-CNFJ-170 lead-crystal from their main brochure.

Once past the marketing stuff, I finally saw a lead-calcium agm, low internal resistance, and a 0.3C maximum current inrush. But of course the electrolyte is the lead-crystal. Aside from the electrolyte, it appears much like any other lead-calcium agm and charges like one too.

Ok, so I do see improved life cycles which interest me. Deep discharge recovery from 100% nice, but I can bring back a pure-lead from that too. (Where 100% DOD does NOT mean zero volts!)

Problem is, on this side of the pond, the grids are made out of unobtainium. Could there just be licensing / IP issues that the bigger manufacturers don't want to tackle? Too costly to manufacture on a large scale?

And, without knowing any sort of pricing, it would be hard for me to do a cost/benefit analysis between sticking to replacing standard high-quality lead-calcium agm's, (Deka/East-Penn, Lifeline, etc) or just moving up to pure-lead agm's, (Enersys, Northstar/Exide, etc) which would eat a lead-crystal's lunch in the charge acceptance department if 0.3C, like most common lead-calcium agm's, is all an LC can do.

(Interestingly enough, while looking up the charge procedures for the new Exide AGM pbc battery, it shows a 0.5C maximum inrush, as opposed to the usual 0.3C for lead-calciums, BUT that 0.5C rate also applies to their earlier AGM products too, so it makes me wonder what is really going on there...)