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East Penn 6 Volt Golf Cart Battery - Gp GC2 from carquest -- is this any good?

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  • bahamasolarnoob
    replied
    Originally posted by Sunking View Post
    Ok that works out to 30 Kwh per day. It is outrageous amount you have to pay for electricity which is one of the consequences of living in Paradise. $485/930 Kwh = $0.5215 per Kwh or about 5 times higher than what we pay in the USA. However just make sure you understand that going off-grid solar in the Bahamas will be much more expensive than what Emera charges you. With import taxes and shipping charges you will likely be paying around $3 per Kwh to go off grid.

    Consider this I know you are looking at using Trojan T-105 Golf Cart batteries or an equivalent that can be had locally. For each battery can supply you with roughly with 300 Watt Hours per day or .3 Kwh. Based on paying 52-cents per Kwh amounts to roughly 15.6 cents of electricity per day. If you are really lucky those batteries might last you 3 years, but for argument sake let's pretend they will last 5 years. With me so far?

    So in 5 years a single battery will provide you with 1825 days x .3 Kwh = 548 Kwh. Take note of that. Now what I want you to do is fill in a blank of $XXX. Take 548 Kwh and divide it by how much each one of those batteries cost delivered to your home so the formula is 548 Kwh / $XXX = $Kwh. That will give you what just 1 Kwh will cost you in batteries alone and nothing else. Also remember it is very unlikely a T-105 will last 5 years. I speak from experience of owning golf carts for 30 years using T-105 and they never make it through the third year using it twice a weak. If the batteries you get are copies or equivalent to T-105 are lessor quality.

    FWIW you do not have to answer to my query. I am not trying to beat you up. I am merly trying to keep you honest with yourself. Here in the USA a genuine Trojan T-105 sells for $160 with sales tax and local pickup. You would need 100 of them to supply you with a full 30 Kwh/day.
    I know. I'm with you all the way, but not in a gay way. After re-reading everything, I am scaling down my project. I am not going completely solar. I realize that. I did some cost analysis: I am looking into replacing my energy hog poolpump with a more energy efficient 3 speed poolpump, I am replacing my giant bottom freezer energy hog 8.3 amp fridge.

    My solar system will be limited to charging ipods, laptops, ipad, 3 fans and a energy efficient apartment type fridge that I am still looking for.
    And yeah I am looking into other better batteries since our last exchange. That might be worth the initial investment. It wont be no huge battery bank.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sunking
    replied
    Originally posted by bahamasolarnoob View Post
    My new light bill.. usage 930KWh $484.23 most of it is Fuel Surcharge.
    Thank you Emera.
    Ok that works out to 30 Kwh per day. It is outrageous amount you have to pay for electricity which is one of the consequences of living in Paradise. $485/930 Kwh = $0.5215 per Kwh or about 5 times higher than what we pay in the USA. However just make sure you understand that going off-grid solar in the Bahamas will be much more expensive than what Emera charges you. With import taxes and shipping charges you will likely be paying around $3 per Kwh to go off grid.

    Consider this I know you are looking at using Trojan T-105 Golf Cart batteries or an equivalent that can be had locally. For each battery can supply you with roughly with 300 Watt Hours per day or .3 Kwh. Based on paying 52-cents per Kwh amounts to roughly 15.6 cents of electricity per day. If you are really lucky those batteries might last you 3 years, but for argument sake let's pretend they will last 5 years. With me so far?

    So in 5 years a single battery will provide you with 1825 days x .3 Kwh = 548 Kwh. Take note of that. Now what I want you to do is fill in a blank of $XXX. Take 548 Kwh and divide it into how much each one of those batteries cost delivered to your home so the formula is $XXX / 548 Kwh = $Kwh. That will give you what just 1 Kwh will cost you in batteries alone and nothing else. Also remember it is very unlikely a T-105 will last 5 years. I speak from experience of owning golf carts for 30 years using T-105 and they never make it through the third year using it twice a weak. If the batteries you get are copies or equivalent to T-105 are lessor quality.

    FWIW you do not have to answer to my query. I am not trying to beat you up. I am merly trying to keep you honest with yourself. Here in the USA a genuine Trojan T-105 sells for $160 with sales tax and local pickup. You would need 100 of them to supply you with a full 30 Kwh/day. Just here in the for grins is $160 / 548 = 30-cents per Kwh. If we use real numbers of 3 years it changes to $160 / 328 Kwh = 49-cents per Kwh or about 5 times more than the national average for a Kwh of electricity.

    Leave a comment:


  • bahamasolarnoob
    replied
    My new light bill.. usage 930KWh $484.23 most of it is Fuel Surcharge.
    Thank you Emera.

    Leave a comment:


  • bahamasolarnoob
    replied
    Ok, I scaled down my project expectations.

    Leave a comment:


  • bahamasolarnoob
    replied
    Originally posted by Mike90250 View Post
    (beer fridge, grandma's iron lung)
    LMAO

    Originally posted by Mike90250 View Post
    4) consider an "Android Plug Computer" for your entertainment center (10W vs 150W PC) *
    * New Version Bluetooth Ug007 Mini Pc Android 4.1 Google Tv Dongle Dual Core Cortex A9 Wifi 1080p RAM 1gb+rom 8gb+3d Amazon (android computer with a HDMI plug that goes into your video display, no touch screen, you need to control it with a $25 wireless remote keyboard/mouse)
    That is cool.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mike90250
    replied
    I'll add a few conflicting thoughts here.

    1) make up a list of "Must have power 24/7 loads" (beer fridge, grandma's iron lung)
    2) make up a list of " when batteries get low, or bad weather is forecast " drop these loads.
    3) trade some computer & monitor pairs for Laptops (80-90W total)
    4) consider an "Android Plug Computer" for your entertainment center (10W vs 150W PC) *
    5) Generator size. I ran last winter, with 2 daily, 30 min runs, of a 3,000w genset. You need
    enough to keep batteries up to 80%, generator did the boost, solar (if any) did the top-off.
    6) backup charger. Not all are created equal. The Power Factor (PF) will greatly affect the charge
    that you actually get. I have one charger that is .6PF, and the other is .9PF Big Difference.
    Some inverters have built-in charger, make sure you understand it's volt, amp and PF requirements.

    * New Version Bluetooth Ug007 Mini Pc Android 4.1 Google Tv Dongle Dual Core Cortex A9 Wifi 1080p RAM 1gb+rom 8gb+3d Amazon (android computer with a HDMI plug that goes into your video display, no touch screen, you need to control it with a $25 wireless remote keyboard/mouse)

    7) <added> Try starting with a small (~600ah) battery bank. Nearly everyone abuses/kills their first battery system. It's cheaper to replace a "4 year" battery bank after 1 year, than a 7year bank after 1 year. If you have to order batteries, get the 2V or 4V models, and try for a series string, not a massively parallel bank.
    Last edited by Mike90250; 05-02-2013, 03:20 PM. Reason: added point 7)

    Leave a comment:


  • bcroe
    replied
    Pool Pump

    Originally posted by bahamasolarnoob View Post
    The pool pump can't possibly be responsible for the remaining monthly Kwh?
    The pool pump is probably your biggest load, but you have no numbers for it. Any
    solution must include it. Bruce Roe

    Leave a comment:


  • Sunking
    replied
    Originally posted by bahamasolarnoob View Post
    Wow.. ok. I need to rethink this whole thing and down size my plans. My solar budget was around $2000 for now.
    Can I squeeze out just an emergency system with a small fridge and 1 computer?

    About the red flag: Yeah you see now that there must be something wrong with my power consumption? I have a small ranch/bungalow style 70's house 3 bed rooms/2 bath.
    I went room to room last night with my list. I have no central a/c.
    The poolpump cant possibly be responsible for the remaining monthly Kwh?

    Dont worry about being to hard, I have read your posts all over this forum. I know where it's coming from. I really appreciate this advice. I have printed it out and going to re read it tonight.
    Too bad we could not hook up a week ago. I was in Nassau all last week.

    Leave a comment:


  • bahamasolarnoob
    replied
    Wow.. ok. I need to rethink this whole thing and down size my plans. My solar budget was around $2000 for now.
    Can I squeeze out just an emergency system with a small fridge and 1 computer?

    About the red flag: Yeah you see now that there must be something wrong with my power consumption? I have a small ranch/bungalow style 70's house 3 bed rooms/2 bath.
    I went room to room last night with my list. I have no central a/c.
    The poolpump cant possibly be responsible for the remaining monthly Kwh?

    Dont worry about being too hard, I have read your posts all over this forum. I know where it's coming from. I really appreciate this advice. I have printed it out and going to re read it tonight.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sunking
    replied
    Originally posted by bahamasolarnoob View Post
    3 x15 W sec. lights: 15wx8 hrs = 120 Wh
    3 x15 W bulbs: 15Wx5 hrs =75 Wh
    ceiling fan 1: 100w x 8 hrs = 800Wh
    ceiling fan 2: 0.9A x 120V=108W X 8 hrs = 864Wh
    ceiling fan 3: 1.1A x 120v=132W x 8 hrs = 1056 Wh
    3 computers: 100w x 4 hrs = 400 Wh
    3 monitors: 150w x 4 hrs= 600 Wh
    tv: 75W x 4 hrs = 300 Wh
    washer: 500W x .5 hrs = 250 Wh
    1.5 Amp fridge (4 cu ft): 1.5x120v=180W x 24/3 h = 1.440 Wh
    cable box receiver: 20W x 4 hrs = 80 Wh
    I also have a 7.1 amp fridge,7.1 x 120 = 852 W x 8 hrs = 6,816 Wh

    Sunking I am still getting you the cost of electricity here. It's taking long because I have to find a recent bill. We dont have mail at the house here, I have to go to the post office and get my mail, just been too busy to actually go there. Usually it fluctuates around $500 for 800-900 Kwatt-hours per month.
    Total Daily Kwh usage = 12.7 Kwh/day or 388 Kwh/month

    OK this is what you need to know as it will clearly show you what is really going on. Granted by US averages your usage is very small compared to the average US residence uses some 30 Kwh/day 900 Kwh/month. However taking 12 to 13 Kwh/day off grid is a huge expensive undertaking and I will be honest with you it is going to hurt deeply in the pockets.

    So just based on what data you have provided so far it is going to take
    • Panel Wattage = (12700 Kwh x 1.5) / 3.8 Hours = 5013 watts. Can round that down to 5000 Watts
    • 48 Volt Battery AH Capacity = (12700 wh x 5 day reserve) / 48 volts = 1322 AH, round down to 1300 AH FWIW that is a 1368 Kg / 3024 pound battery. It takes 24 of these batteries to get the job done.
    • MPPT Charge Controller = 80 amps. There is only 1 80 amp controller on the market that can handle 5000 watt input, a Midnight Solar Classic 150.


    I think once you check total delivered price on just these 3 components you will understand why I am so cautious. For example here in the USA the batteries cost roughly $10,500 plus shipping. Ignoring any import tax and shipping cost to Bahamas based on 5 year replacement cycle each Kwh will cost you $10,500 / 23177 Kwh = $0.453 Kwh. I can only imagine your total delivered cost will be at least twice that much meaning just in battery cost you will be paying $1.00 Kwh. In 4 or 5 years you get to cough up even more due to inflation. Based on what numbers you provided you are now paying the POCO $500 / 900 Kwh = $0.55 / Kwh. So right now going off-grid is going to double your expense. You need to think about that real hard.

    You raise a RED Flag here too. From the data you provided totaled about 13 Kwh/day or 390 Kwh/month. 900 Kwh/month is 30 Kwh/day. Something is not right. 13 Kwh does not = 30 Kwh

    Originally posted by bahamasolarnoob View Post
    My plan is to have 2x285W/24v panels set up this year.
    Next year another 2 for total of 4x285W. I was thinking of cutting costs for now and run it on 2x6v batteries and a 12 v system (with a MPPT cc) until next year.
    Then next year change the setting on the MPPT cc to 24 volt and get more batteries. (and another 24v inverter?)
    Dont know if that makes any sense. You will probably rip this to pieces. Let me know if this is a ****ty idea. I can take it.
    Do not take this wrong, I mean no harm, but your plan will fail and wipe out your funds. With each upgrade will require full replacement of batteries. Your first 3 years is not even a good down payment. You need a 5000 watt system 48 volt system, not a 500 or 1500 watt 24 volt system. You would just be throwing money away. FWIW use 200 to 215 watt Grid Tied panels

    Originally posted by bahamasolarnoob View Post
    Whats also killing us here is the fuel surcharge that is sometimes 3x the cost of your actual usage, and the fuel charge (the POCO runs diesel generators) "fluctuates" monthly (based on world oil prices they say....) so you never know what you're gonna get. We have no consumer protection here, the POCO is Canadian.
    The POCO seems to ease up on cracking down on people/businesses using grid tied solar or generators. Years back they were known for cutting peoples wiring from the solar panels to the house. Thats why I dont want nothing grid tied.

    I would like to stay away from generators because 1. they are expensive to import or buy locally 2. fuel is $5.25-5.50 a gallon
    Sorry but a generator is a must have item for a off-grid system. It is required to properly maintain the batteries with a monthly EQ charge and get you through rainy season. Otherwise you will destroy those $10,000 batteries. You are looking a 10 KVA diesel or LPG generator (gasoline is not acceptable) with a 150 amp 48 volt battery charger.

    I know you think I am being hard on you, and I am. But I have a damn good reason to be hard on you. I am trying to get you to understand what you are asking for. In the end you might thank me for it.

    Leave a comment:


  • bahamasolarnoob
    replied
    Originally posted by Mike90250 View Post
    Spend the $$ up front and get a $800 full size Energy Star fridge/freezer that in total, consumes 370KWh yearly. They have good insulation and modern motors. It's easier (more effective) to insulate 1 box instead of 2 of them.
    Yeah that was my other thought. What about the famous converted chest freezer fridge + a small 214 KWh yearly freezer?

    Leave a comment:


  • Mike90250
    replied
    Originally posted by bahamasolarnoob View Post
    Another question, would it make sense for my solar system to buy a small freezer like this that uses 212 kWh/year in addition to the small fridge, instead of the big fridge and instead of getting more panels to power the big fridge.
    Spend the $$ up front and get a $800 full size Energy Star fridge/freezer that in total, consumes 370KWh yearly. They have good insulation and modern motors. It's easier (more effective) to insulate 1 box instead of 2 of them.

    Leave a comment:


  • bahamasolarnoob
    replied
    Another question, would it make sense for my solar system to buy a small freezer like this that uses 212 kWh/year in addition to the small fridge, instead of the big fridge and instead of getting more panels to power the big fridge.

    Leave a comment:


  • bahamasolarnoob
    replied
    Ok hope this is better, lets try this again:

    3 x15 W sec. lights: 15wx8 hrs = 120 Wh
    3 x15 W bulbs: 15Wx5 hrs =75 Wh
    ceiling fan 1: 100w x 8 hrs = 800Wh
    ceiling fan 2: 0.9A x 120V=108W X 8 hrs = 864Wh
    ceiling fan 3: 1.1A x 120v=132W x 8 hrs = 1056 Wh
    3 computers: 100w x 4 hrs = 400 Wh
    3 monitors: 150w x 4 hrs= 600 Wh
    tv: 75W x 4 hrs = 300 Wh
    washer: 500W x .5 hrs = 250 Wh (dont know if this is correct? Its on every day for 1 load)
    1.5 Amp fridge
    (4 cu ft): 1.5x120v=180W x 24/3 h = 1.440 Wh ( I read that I should divide the daily fridge hours by 3, you can adjust this if this is wrong)
    dlink router: 6W x 24 hrs = 144Wh
    cable box receiver: 20W x 4 hrs = 80 Wh

    I also have a 7.1 amp fridge, I think its better to sell this one, but anyway just for discussion:
    7.1 x 120 = 852 W x 8 hrs = 6,816 Wh

    Shocking to me was, when I checked on the bottom of all my appliances, how much some of these things use all day, like the dlink router and the cable box... or my kids that leave their computer on. I am turning everything off.

    Sunking I am still getting you the cost of electricity here. It's taking long because I have to find a recent bill. We dont have mail at the house here, I have to go to the post office and get my mail, just been too busy to actually go there. Usually it fluctuates around $500 for 800-900 Kwatt-hours per month.

    My plan is to have 2x285W/24v panels set up this year.
    Next year another 2 for total of 4x285W. I was thinking of cutting costs for now and run it on 2x6v batteries and a 12 v system (with a MPPT cc) until next year.
    Then next year change the setting on the MPPT cc to 24 volt and get more batteries. (and another 24v inverter?)
    Dont know if that makes any sense. You will probably rip this to pieces. Let me know if this is a ****ty idea. I can take it.

    I would be happy if I can run the little fridge, maybe wash this year, have a few lights and one computer. This would be my emergency set up for now and earn me some bonus points with my beautiful wife.

    Originally posted by bcroe View Post
    What about the pool pump? its probably responsible for most of your big electric bill.
    How much, and what will be done about it? Bruce Roe
    Yes I think it is. I left this out of the system.

    Whats also killing us here is the fuel surcharge that is sometimes 3x the cost of your actual usage, and the fuel charge (the POCO runs diesel generators) "fluctuates" monthly (based on world oil prices they say....) so you never know what you're gonna get. We have no consumer protection here, the POCO is Canadian.
    The POCO seems to ease up on cracking down on people/businesses using grid tied solar or generators. Years back they were known for cutting peoples wiring from the solar panels to the house. Thats why I dont want nothing grid tied.

    I would like to stay away from generators because 1. they are expensive to import or buy locally 2. fuel is $5.25-5.50 a gallon

    Leave a comment:


  • bcroe
    replied
    Pump

    What about the pool pump? its probably responsible for most of your big electric bill.
    How much, and what will be done about it? Bruce Roe

    Leave a comment:

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