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  • Ampster
    replied
    Originally posted by nairbg View Post
    OK, now that we have the battery charging profile question out of the way.....

    ............
    Sorry for the distractions. Lots of drama here that gets in the way of meaningful advice. My qualifications are that i have been called a member of the Green Mafia and a Green Jihadhist so take my unprofessional advice with a grain of salt. One way to protect your Lithium battery from overcharging if you cannot adjust the BCC aux voltage is to use a voltage programmable relay as a backstop safety advice.

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  • RShackleford
    replied
    Originally posted by J.P.M. View Post
    I learned a long time ago that not everyone who tells me things I don't like is out to get me or, heaven forbid, hurt your feelings, or, for that matter, that everyone who tells me what makes me feel good and/or boost my ego is necessarily my friend or tryying to help me.
    Grow up and stop thinking this is all about you.
    When the **** did I say this was about me ?

    There's a huge difference between providing dissenting opinions and being an asshole - statements like "come back when you're 6 years old " (or something like that he said on another thread). You can be jerky too (and perhaps me too), but I accept some of what you have to say. For example, your concerns about using wood prompted me to think about that decision and decide to use IronRidge rails instead of 2x8 purlins for mounting my panels.


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  • Ampster
    replied
    Originally posted by SunEagle View Post
    Using my threat of giving someone a vacation seems to be more bark than bite. Maybe I am getting too old for this type of crap.

    ......
    Actions sometimes are more effective than words. What has been most successful in other forums is to remove, abusive, inaccurate, irrelevant and snippy comments from a thread. Unfortunately that comes with the territory of human interaction. It seems to be human nature as we can see at play on our national stage. The Terms of Service should be the criteria for the Moderator's decisions, not a member's own definition of another poster's competence or compliance.
    Speaking of compliance, I can't easily find the Terms of Service. I found the Privacy Policy at the bottom of the page.

    What ever your decision is, your service and contribution is appreciated. In either case I hope you will continue to share your knowledge.
    Last edited by Ampster; 05-24-2020, 02:48 PM.

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  • SunEagle
    replied
    Using my threat of giving someone a vacation seems to be more bark than bite. Maybe I am getting too old for this type of crap.

    I know when I took over a gaming server as Admin I spent more time sorting out the crap then enjoying the fun of gaming. It seems I may have reached that point here and need to take a permanent vacation from this forum as a MOD.

    It pains me to say it that my power to help people seems to be over run by separating members from trashing each other. This is not what I want to do. So maybe I need to ask Solar Pete to remove my MOD powers and give to someone that can do a better job.

    End rant. See Ya!!!!

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  • J.P.M.
    replied
    Originally posted by RShackleford

    Moderator, please don't equate these two - @Ampster is a helpful and valuable member of our community, the other is a troll.
    Yea, I wouldn't equate them either. They're certainly not technical equals in the engineering fields important to alternate energy and this venue, at least not IMO.
    One person is recognized as a professional electrical engineer who knows his designs can kill if he makes a mistake and therefore, by training and inclination knows and takes the responsibility of conveying safe and accurate information seriously. Those come with the P.E. until proven otherwise.
    The other person, it seems to have been demonstrated to me anyway, brings little more than anecdotal stuff full of me-too-isms and who seems to think something is safe as long as it's blessed in some publication that fits his reality, and/or hasn't killed anyone he knows yet.

    I'm not sure what passes for reality based knowledge around here anymore. Same goes for attention to conveying safe information, getting it right and calling out screwups.

    As for the troll B.S., my observation is that accusation is used a lot by folks who have had their feelings hurt, and is often directed at the source of what's usually the existential conundrum that follows when entrenched ideas and opinions are shown to be not the best for the situation in ways that the accuser can't reconcile or explain away and so the tactics of dealing with the problem devolve to name calling.
    I learned a long time ago that not everyone who tells me things I don't like is out to get me or, heaven forbid, hurt your feelings, or, for that matter, that everyone who tells me what makes me feel good and/or boost my ego is necessarily my friend or tryying to help me.
    Grow up and stop thinking this is all about you. The sign over the door says "Solar Panel Talk".

    SunEagle: Noting Sunking's post to another thread about banning him, whatever you or the rest of the management of this outfit may see fit to do with Sunking, if anything, you might as well do to me as well. If that means getting rid of us, you'll have two fewer backstops for the loose cannon(s) and things will be a lot calmer. However, I'll hazard a guess and say (write) maybe not more accurate from a technical standpoint.
    I appreciate your job here is a PITA at times from all this crap, but seems to me that a lot of it (but I'm note, not all of it) starts when someone who doesn't know spoor from shoe polish writes something that a more technically astute person knows, or at least believes to be inaccurate, incomplete or downright dangerous.
    Seems to me that may be a better and simpler solution might be to remove the source of the problem - the bad information - at the front end which information you, I, the Mods, Sunking and others know (because we've got the experience to know B.S. when we smell it) to be at least junk and, not unlike giving a loaded pistol to a 2 yr. old, often unsafe when taken as truth and acted upon by neophytes coming here looking for accurate information.
    Stop more of the inaccurate, bad or questionable stuff at the front end and you won't need to contend as much of it at the back end.
    Doing so will also improve forum content, quality and reputation. Improving those 3, content, quality and reputation will also be good for business.
    People come here looking for straight answers and leadership, not feelgood, moronic, greenwashing junk. There's to much of that around as it is. .

    At the risk of posing a rhetorical question: What's more important around here, safe, technically correct and accurate, or not hurting someone' s feelings ?

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  • nairbg
    replied
    OK, now that we have the battery charging profile question out of the way.....

    I have discovered that there is a dynamic battery-charging priority logic built into the Battery Control Center (BCC) unit (F73-1020). This logic provides that the system gives charge priority to the chassis (starter) battery when the engine alternator is feeding the system and once it reaches full charge the BCC switches charge current to the house batteries.

    In the alternative, the BCC feeds shore power (110v) and the generator (110v) to the converter which provides 12v to the house batteries first and to the chassis battery when the house batteries are fully charged.

    If I add the solar panel 12v via the charge controller directly to the house LiFePO4 batteries, might that create a conflict with the Battery Control Center (BCC) unit in any of the charging conditions that the BCC usually controls?

    It me, it seems that it should not. It seems as though the BCC will simply see the house batteries as more charged than they really are if the solar is actually providing current to the house batteries.

    It seems to me that the conflict would arise if I were to install an inverter to energize the onboard AC system, in which case it would present the grid inter-tied system problems of gating the system to isolate the inverter AC from the shore-power AC, from the Genset AC. I have no intention of doing this at this point.
    Last edited by nairbg; 05-24-2020, 12:41 AM.

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  • RShackleford
    replied
    Originally posted by SunEagle View Post
    I get good input from both but they can be a little abrasive to each other which makes my life more complicated.
    Thanks for your service.

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  • SunEagle
    replied
    Originally posted by RShackleford

    Moderator, please don't equate these two - @Ampster is a helpful and valuable member of our community, the other is a troll.
    While Sunking may be a little rough around the edges I respect his experience concerning batteries and electrical installations. He just has a way (not mine) of dealing with people that turns them off.

    While Ampster has provided some useful information I do not know his past or experiences. He also supports Li chemistry batteries which while safe with someone that has experience can be very unsafe with a new person getting into solar. Still he is a valued member.

    I get good input from both but they can be a little abrasive to each other which makes my life more complicated.

    All I can say is try to hang in there. You will get good support from this Forum.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sunking
    replied
    Originally posted by Mike90250 View Post
    I also think that sunking made a error or typo with the battery charge profile comparisons,
    If I did please point it out and I will correct myself. The profiles are a result of Ohm's Law.

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  • Sunking
    replied
    Originally posted by SunEagle View Post
    To Ampster and Sunking. Please stop bickering with each other or I may have to give both a vacation.
    Ban me now. because I will not stop.Ampster is dangerous and you know it.
    Last edited by Sunking; 05-23-2020, 04:01 PM.

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  • Ampster
    replied

    That was all that @nairbg was trying to say. We all make mistakes in wording that can be interpreted by others not as we intended. The irony is it is all very clear in the stickies.
    Last edited by Ampster; 05-23-2020, 10:43 AM.

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  • Mike90250
    replied
    Originally posted by nairbg View Post
    Somebody here that seems to know everything apparently needs to see this:

    https://www.power-sonic.com/blog/how...po4-batteries/
    I like their simplified how to connect in series/parallel
    https://www.power-sonic.com/blog/how...-and-parallel/
    where in series, you should use a separate charger for each battery, but don't address the specifics of the right way and wrong way. But they are around to sell you batteries.

    I also think that sunking made a error or typo with the battery charge profile comparisons, since I recall him having explained it differently another time. But end result, you always go with the battery mfg's recommended charging regimen. Lead acid is usually much more forgiving and fails more gracefully than Li batteries.

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  • SunEagle
    replied
    To Ampster and Sunking. Please stop bickering with each other or I may have to give both a vacation.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sunking
    replied
    Originally posted by Ampster View Post
    Good post explains it better than the expert did.
    Why do I have to repeat myself? Did that years ago. It is in the STICKIES already. You just keep exposing yourself as not really knowing anything about the subject.That is what Green Mafia and Pretenders do.

    FWIW smart guy, you can buy 5-stage Lithium Battery Chargers. Bulk, Absorb, Float, Restore, Rebulk. Do you need a Link. Nah you already know who it is and don't understand it.

    I got a 6-stage Algorithm for Lithium and PB. Programmed it myself. Me and a couple of Peers at C&D battery came up with it. We even Patetened it. Want one? It is for sale to John Consumer.
    Last edited by Sunking; 05-22-2020, 08:11 PM.

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  • Sunking
    replied
    Originally posted by nairbg View Post
    Somebody here that seems to know everything apparently needs to see this:

    https://www.power-sonic.com/blog/how...po4-batteries/
    You need to learn about batteries and chargers.You have it in your mind because the profile is different has something to do with the chargers. You see that word 3-Stage for Pb and think there is something different, there is not. It is simple Ohms Law.

    If you stop and think about it, something might occur to you. Right now today if you can afford it , you can buy a LFP battery. Requires absolutely no modifications to the vehicle's electric system because LFP is directly compatible with PB at 6-volt intervals. Both Pb and LFP can be charged anywhere from 13.2 to 14.4 volts. Your vehicle is 14.2 to 14.4 volts. How can that be with your analogy?

    The only reason they use 3-stage charging for Pb is TIME, something you do not have any using solar. They are made to charge as fast as possible A three stage charger just turns up the voltage during the first stage called Bulk. Typically set to 14.4 volts, same as LFP if you are going to 100%, then backs off to 13.6 to 13.8 for Float. Automobiles, telecom, data, military, and critical mission operations do not use 3-stage algorithms because it is too hard on batteries. They do not cycle batteries daily. They use Float which means nothing more than a Constant Voltage set to gentle 13.2 to 13.8 volts depending on battery type.

    You just have to know something about batteries and how they charge. Any Pb charger and be used to charge a like voltage and capacity LFP. You just have to know what you are doing. Every single charge controller can be set to LFP. Stupid simple to do any 6-year old can do. Otherwise John Consumer just pays up, does not ask questions, buys something that says SMART on it to make up for their ignorance. Good marketing.

    Let me know when you turn 6 and I will teach you.

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