What is the benefit of a "hybrid" inverter/charger?

[jflorey2]

Maybe a diagram would help:

Grid -> Nothing


Battery (8A) --------------+
...........................|
...........................\/
Generator (12A) -> Inverter/Charger -> Load (20A)

In your case the generator will supply up to 12A and it will take the place of the grid (i.e. it will be "shore power" even though it is a generator.) So 12A+25A (inverter max) -> 37A absolute max output. In a real world system I wouldn't count on that but 30-35A is likely possible.

[Mike90250]

As i understand it, a Hybrid inverter can both invert off batteries and supply AC loads, AND if there is Grid, be able to Backfeed the Grid if there is an Intertie Agreement in place.
Charger and Generator Support are secondary functions, but the Hybrid part is joining AC from Battery and Battery Backfeed the Grid.

There is a whole bunch of info about Generator Support functions on another section of this forum. I use Gensupport all the time in the winter

[createthis]

As i understand it, a Hybrid inverter can both invert off batteries and supply AC loads, AND if there is Grid, be able to Backfeed the Grid if there is an Intertie Agreement in place.
Charger and Generator Support are secondary functions, but the Hybrid part is joining AC from Battery and Battery Backfeed the Grid.

There is a whole bunch of info about Generator Support functions on another section of this forum. I use Gensupport all the time in the winter

I think there is "Hybrid Grid Tie" and "Magnum Hybrid" which is a marketing term for "Load Support" or "Generator Assist". I was asking about the latter and there is no feeding back into the grid with the latter. I suspect Magnum did us all a disservice with that "Hybrid" label as it isn't very descriptive and it conflicts with grid tie nomenclature.

[inetdog]

I wish it had a battery preferred mode. Seems to prefer grid power. I think it would be more interesting to prefer battery power and just sip from the grid when necessary.

Unless your POCO does not allow net metering and you have horribly disadvantageous time of use rates, your net cost of power will be far lower operating with grid preferred and selling back power if you have excess than you would get if you kept on using up your expensive batteries by cycling them.

Yes, it would be more interesting, but not more economical.

[createthis]

Unless your POCO does not allow net metering and you have horribly disadvantageous time of use rates, your net cost of power will be far lower operating with grid preferred and selling back power if you have excess than you would get if you kept on using up your expensive batteries by cycling them.

Yes, it would be more interesting, but not more economical.

I'm still talking about generator support, not grid tie. There's no selling back of power with generator support inverters.

[Sunking]

Jesse looks like you are the one who does not understand what a Hybrid Inverter is and/or does. A Hybrid Inverter has two AC Power Ports.

1. Commercial AC Power is a Bidirectional Port where power flows in both directions. Incoming power is used for loads and charging the battery. Excess power is shipped out and sold. You need to understand this, You will not be connecting a MSW Inverter on this port. Will not work so forget it.

2. Generator Port is One-Way from Generator. Used to supply loads and charge a battery.

[createthis]

For the last time... no one is feeding MSW onto the grid. I said modified sine wave generator, not inverter. Read people.

[inetdog]

I'm still talking about generator support, not grid tie. There's no selling back of power with generator support inverters.

Then why did you talk about grid preference in the hybrid inverter?
What you are really talking about is having a hybrid inverter with generator support that can start your generator when needed and only run the generator when the inverter cannot keep up with the load. When you do that, you may or may not want to use battery preference versus generator preference while the generator is running, depending on the amount of load and the details of your generator. For a diesel generator you do not want to run it at too small a load for a long period of time.

A good hybrid with good generator support should have the flexibility to do what you want.
Search the (old) posts from member Chris Olson to see how the best ones work.

[jflorey2]

For the last time... no one is feeding MSW onto the grid. I said modified sine wave generator, not inverter. Read people.

Who sells an MSW generator? A rotating machine inherently generates a sine wave; all the inverter-based generators I have seen are sine wave.

[SunEagle]

Who sells an MSW generator? A rotating machine inherently generates a sine wave; all the inverter-based generators I have seen are sine wave.

Just about all of the cheap portable generators are MSW type generators. They are not inverter based and are usually older style.

[inetdog]

Just about all of the cheap portable generators are MSW type generators. They are not inverter based and are usually older style.

Just how do you get an MSW from a rotating coil generator?.
I could see a poor sine wave with lots of harmonics, but Modified Square Wave is just to specialized to produce with a rotating generator, IMHO.
They certainly do not have the circuitry needed to work in parallel with a grid, but that is a more a matter of synchronization that waveform.
Similarly they will not qualify as grid on a typical GTI, but the involves frequency and voltage stability more than waveform.

Or do you think that these cheap generators are somehow DC generators with commutator switching?
My first really cheap generator had a ceramic permanent magnet flywheel and two thick ribbon stationary coils. No voltage regulator, just speed control which indirectly affected the voltage. The sine wave was near perfect.

[SunEagle]

Just how do you get an MSW from a rotating coil generator?.
I could see a poor sine wave with lots of harmonics, but Modified Square Wave is just to specialized to produce with a rotating generator, IMHO.
They certainly do not have the circuitry needed to work in parallel with a grid, but that is a more a matter of synchronization that waveform.
Similarly they will not qualify as grid on a typical GTI, but the involves frequency and voltage stability more than waveform.

Or do you think that these cheap generators are somehow DC generators with commutator switching?
My first really cheap generator had a ceramic permanent magnet flywheel and two thick ribbon stationary coils. No voltage regulator, just speed control which indirectly affected the voltage. The sine wave was near perfect.

You are correct. It is more of a poor sine wave and it can have lots of harmonics.

As far as I am concerned it may not be modified but is it far from pure.

[inetdog]

As far as I am concerned it may not be modified but is it far from pure.

That is why I consider MSW to stand for Modified Square Wave, not Modified Sine Wave.
It has far more of the characteristics of a square wave than of a sine wave.

And the MSW inverter waveforms are very very close to square in their edges, the modified part is that they spend half (two quarters) of each cycle at zero volts.

[Sunking]

And the MSW inverter waveforms are very very close to square in their edges, the modified part is that they spend half (two quarters) of each cycle at zero volts.

I think we are wasting our time here as Jesse is not getting the point. He is not going to connect a MSW anything to a Hybrid Inverter. He may think he can, but will learn if he does he lets the smoke out of his hybrid Inverters. and quite possible the MSW Inverts. He willL be able to go into the Boat Anchor biz.

[Mike90250]

60VAC to ground both legs....... Whooo Hooo!!