HELP: Inverter is draining battery almost instantly! Why?

[Raul]

Brilliant, thanks. I've also contacted 12voltworld and asked what deal they can do on the pair. Do you know if, when in use, this inverter has a constant fan or one that only kicks in when temp gets high.

The one I have is quite annoying as the fan is on constantly on start up!

The fan on that inverter only comes on when overloaded or near its max for long. It is whisper quiet . You may want to go for a 30a CC so you can add panels in the future if you need it

[lkruper]

One more question, will this CC still be fine if I add another 250w panel of the same type to the system?

Look at the blue table labeled Technical details, in the link for the CC on Ebay. Note the line:
Maximum PV power, 12V 200 W (MPPT range 15V to 75V)

Your panel is 250w. This CC goes up to 200w and the chart also shows 15A max. Take 250W / 12 = 20.8 amps. That is close to the theoretical limit to your panel and you probably will never see it. You may get 80% to 85%. You can measure that in bright sun with a volt ohmmeter that measures amps. But you can see that you need a charge controller that is rated higher to double the panels. But there is more. You need to decide whether to put your panels in parallel or series and make sure you don't exceed the voltage and amps that way as well. Don't jump into anything just yet.

As for the inverter, look at the specs on that page too. The self-consumption for that inverter is 2.2w. That will help you decide what drain it has on your battery as you use it. Also the efficiency. 87% if I remember correctly. Compare those figures to any other inverters you might consider.

[spoon]

The CC in the link is the one but don't go for that seller , I did and got the wrong item . It took 3 weeks and no communication to get a refund as I sent the item back, bautech that is. Look fo listings in UK, there is a seller named meadow tech controls ; go on eBay shop and call the guy with your requirements . Highly recommended as he knows this stuff and can help you with design needs as well. If you order before 3 pm free next day delivery.
The inverter you linked is 175 you want a 350 so if you need more power in the future it will do the job; they very efficient inverters and very low stand by power draw .

Brilliant, thanks. I've also contacted 12voltworld and asked what deal they can do on the pair. Do you know if, when in use, this inverter has a constant fan or one that only kicks in when temp gets high.

The one I have is quite annoying as the fan is on constantly on start up!

[Raul]

The CC in the link is the one but don't go for that seller , I did and got the wrong item . It took 3 weeks and no communication to get a refund as I sent the item back, bautech that is. Look fo listings in UK, there is a seller named meadow tech controls ; go on eBay shop and call the guy with your requirements . Highly recommended as he knows this stuff and can help you with design needs as well. If you order before 3 pm free next day delivery.
The inverter you linked is 175 you want a 350 so if you need more power in the future it will do the job; they very efficient inverters and very low stand by power draw .

[spoon]

Hello soon
I would look into a victron blue solar charger ; they listed on eBay and you can get a 15a for 80 quid. It will work with your 250w panel and go for a Phoenix 350w inverter . You will not regret it.

One more question, will this CC still be fine if I add another 250w panel of the same type to the system?

[spoon]

Hello soon
I would look into a victron blue solar charger ; they listed on eBay and you can get a 15a for 80 quid. It will work with your 250w panel and go for a Phoenix 350w inverter . You will not regret it.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VICTRON-Charging-Controller-Energy-Blue-Solar-MPPT-75-15-for-12V-24V-/391043186260?hash=item5b0bfd7e54:g:-lYAAOSwm8VUy8Yc

This one^^

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Victron-Phoenix-Pure-Sine-Wave-Power-Inverter-12v-350w-Boats-Caravan-Motorhome-/191542760666?hash=item2c98d694da:g:MBYAAOSwEeFVEF~p

And this^^

Doesn't look to me like the inverter has a standard (UK) 3 pin socet though, and standard power is 175w... (peak being 350w). Will that be enough?

[Raul]

Hello soon
I would look into a victron blue solar charger ; they listed on eBay and you can get a 15a for 80 quid. It will work with your 250w panel and go for a Phoenix 350w inverter . You will not regret it.

[spoon]

2. The crocodile clips are not going to give a secure enough low resistance connection to your battery and that can cause additional voltage drop under load that can make the situation worse. You can get an idea of whether this is a problem for you by measuring the voltage at the battery terminals (posts) themselves while the inverter is loaded and then measure the voltage at the inverter terminals at as close to the same time as possible. Then go back and measure at the battery posts.
A voltage drop of even a fraction of a volt will be costing you power and performance.

I had wondered this also, so I have removed the croc clips and put on one of the 'ring' style connectors straight to the terminal for a better contact.

I'm not sure if I can return the battery. I will contact supplier and see what the warranty status is.

In terms of appropriate replacement kit, I have no idea...

[spoon]

Your main issu is nothing is sized correct to work with each other.

A 1000 watt 12 volt inverter requires a battery that can supply 100 amps with 2% or less voltage sag. To do that with a FLA battery requires 800 AH weighing around 540 pounds worth, or a 400 AH AGM battery weighing roughly half that. Regardless if you use FLA or AGM they both cost roughly the same. AGM will only last half as long and cost twice as much per AH. So an AGM long term is 400$ higher cost than FLA.

To charge a 12 volt 800 AH battery requires a 1000 wat panel with 80 amp MPPT charger.

Sorry but you are not even remotely close to having what is required. Thus is why it does not work. It failed the day you bought it. It just took you some time to figure out what happened.

I had a horrible feeling it may come to this

Thanks all for the replies, I understand SAG now. When I went back in the evening and checked the battery voltage it had dropped to 12.36... Worrying as there had been no load on it from when I checked it earlier in the light and it was 12.59.

So, I think that the battery is no good. Luckily I have the spare. I guess the question now is: How can I save my system and what bits do I need?

I'm guessing the cheapest way would be to keep the good battery & the panel and look to get a more suitable CC and inverter. Perhaps a smaller one would be better as I don't use alot (I can always keep the 1000w in case). So maybe something around the 300-400w range would be better for my needs?

[Sunking]

Your main issu is nothing is sized correct to work with each other.

A 1000 watt 12 volt inverter requires a battery that can supply 100 amps with 2% or less voltage sag. To do that with a FLA battery requires 800 AH weighing around 540 pounds worth, or a 400 AH AGM battery weighing roughly half that. Regardless if you use FLA or AGM they both cost roughly the same. AGM will only last half as long and cost twice as much per AH. So an AGM long term is 400$ higher cost than FLA.

To charge a 12 volt 800 AH battery requires a 1000 wat panel with 80 amp MPPT charger.

Sorry but you are not even remotely close to having what is required. Thus is why it does not work. It failed the day you bought it. It just took you some time to figure out what happened.

[inetdog]

... The inverter is connected via crocodile clips onto the battery terminals.

The problem is this, my system runs fine with the LED lighting etc. When I try and plug my laptop in via the inverter, the indicator on the charge controller goes from green or flashing green to RED very quickly, within a few minutes.

1. Your battery does not seem to be large enough for the load the inverter is putting on it or else your new battery had been sitting on the dealer's shelf for too long without being kept properly charged. Or you have damaged it by chronic undercharging. If your charger takes a couple of days to get the battery back to full charge it is not doing the job you need. It may be more of a battery maintainer designed for float-only use rather than a charger for cycle use.
If it a flooded battery (cell caps you can open) you should check the specific gravity (SG) with a temperature compensated hydrometer to see if it is actually charging properly.
2. The crocodile clips are not going to give a secure enough low resistance connection to your battery and that can cause additional voltage drop under load that can make the situation worse. You can get an idea of whether this is a problem for you by measuring the voltage at the battery terminals (posts) themselves while the inverter is loaded and then measure the voltage at the inverter terminals at as close to the same time as possible. Then go back and measure at the battery posts.
A voltage drop of even a fraction of a volt will be costing you power and performance.

[lkruper]

Yep, the panel is quite close by, I check it for obstructions regularly. It is pointing due south @ around a 45 degree angle.

No, what i mean is. How did the CC indicator go from red to green once the inverter had been switched off, with no power being 'added' to the battery if that makes sense. Surely if the inverter had drained the battery down, it would stay at 'red' until the Solar panel had chance to charge the battery the next morning.

Yep, nothing is left in the inverter. It is attached via croc clips to the battery terminals. When not in use, nothing is left plugged into it.

I believe another poster mentioned voltage sag. When a load is on a battery is can draw down the voltage, and the CC may be reacting to this. If the voltage dropped too much it might not be high enough to run the CC. This sounds like it could be a sulfated battery. If it is still under warranty, perhaps you could get it replaced. Try to get one with a recent manufacture date and check voltages on any new battery you might get.

[sensij]

No, what i mean is. How did the CC indicator go from red to green once the inverter had been switched off, with no power being 'added' to the battery if that makes sense. Surely if the inverter had drained the battery down, it would stay at 'red' until the Solar panel had chance to charge the battery the next morning.

This could be the voltage sag that others tried to explain to you earlier. The load of the inverter on the battery is sagging the voltage below the CC's trigger, and when the inverter is switched off, the battery can "rest" and the voltage settles back at a higher level. For just the idle load of the inverter to sag the voltage enough to trigger the CC light suggests one or more of the following is true:

1) The battery is at a low SOC.
2) The battery capacity has been seriously impaired by chronic undercharging.
3) The inverter idle load is much higher than you are thinking.

[spoon]

Y

lkruper:
Only if you get enough hours of sunshine to finish charging the battery to 100%. Also, the angle of the panel, the season of the year and whether or not there is something shading the panel, etc. You say the problem started in the last few weeks? Have you checked your location for insolation values at this time of the year?


lkruper:
The CC needs adequate power to run itself. That is why one needs to plug it into a battery first and let it start up before it will work. The light might indicate that the inverter is drawing power. When you say turn the inverter off, do you also mean turn the loads off that are being run through the inverter as well, or just the inverter by itself?

Yep, the panel is quite close by, I check it for obstructions regularly. It is pointing due south @ around a 45 degree angle.

No, what i mean is. How did the CC indicator go from red to green once the inverter had been switched off, with no power being 'added' to the battery if that makes sense. Surely if the inverter had drained the battery down, it would stay at 'red' until the Solar panel had chance to charge the battery the next morning.

Yep, nothing is left in the inverter. It is attached via croc clips to the battery terminals. When not in use, nothing is left plugged into it.

[lkruper]

Yep, the inverter is only switched on when needed. With regards the other post, the last few weeks here have been quite good sunshine wise... I would have expected a 250w panel to charge 20% of my battery no trouble, no?

lkruper:
Only if you get enough hours of sunshine to finish charging the battery to 100%. Also, the angle of the panel, the season of the year and whether or not there is something shading the panel, etc. You say the problem started in the last few weeks? Have you checked your location for insolation values at this time of the year?


I would like to change the inverter too, even if it isn't to blame... It has an automatic fan which is on constantly, horrible noise.

Why, in the evening when the inverter took the battery to red, did the CC light go back to green once the inverter had been turned off... There was nothing charging it?

lkruper:
The CC needs adequate power to run itself. That is why one needs to plug it into a battery first and let it start up before it will work. The light might indicate that the inverter is drawing power. When you say turn the inverter off, do you also mean turn the loads off that are being run through the inverter as well, or just the inverter by itself?