Are DIY Solar Panels Worth it?

[PerfectReign]

I want to thank all who've posted on this thread.

http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/newreply.php?p=18787&noquote=1

With my first 2kW installed by a contractor, I wanted to begin the work of expanding. (I have micro-inverters so can conceptually expand as much or little as I want.)

I was thinking of going "cheap" and building my own. However, I see prices in in the $2.00/kW range already. Add the 40% federal rebate and the recently reduced California rebate and that prices goes well down into the $1.10/kW range.

I don't think there is any way to make a panel for those prices.

I've been looking at ebay for panels and also inverters. I see the panels already - UL listed but maybe blemished or off-brand - for $1.30-$1.50/kW. Those would still be eligible for the federal rebate. I don't know if I'd trust them on my roof, but conceptually it is a great idea.

[Sunking]

I'm still trying to figgure out why CA and AZ have it better than the rest of us. On top of the 50% state and govt tax credits they also get a reduced utility rate or what?

No, no, no, CA and AZ do not get lower rates. CA is the highest utility rates in the lower 48. CA has a noose around their neck. CA State environmental policies have prevented any new power plants to be built in I think 15 years. Since they started perusing RE incentives 10 years ago they went from importing roughly 19% of their electricity, to almost 30% today and falling further behind with each day. If AZ who supplies 25% of So Cal electricity were to say have a problem or say FU CA, Southern Ca goes dark, and there is no way around it.

I wouldn't say CA has it better off, it is just a matter of time when creditors default on their debt, and step in and take control of the state. CA is in so much dept they cannot possible pay it off. The interest payment on its debt, is just about as much as state taxes bring in. That is insolvable Bankruptcy. What is really scary is the USA is right behind CA.

[rhjames]

Sunking - I fully agree. I don't regard solar as a realistic alternative or supplement to our existing grid. Of course, it has application in remote areas, and specialty circumstances.I totally disagree with my hard earned taxes being given away to subsidise solar, with zero return or benefit.

Now, I'm about to pour my first Sylgard on my first solar panel. Hope i can get the bubbles out. I've been waiting for a cool day - I thought 42 degC was a bit hot to do it.

[rollandelliott]

I see your point and agree with it to a certain degree, but anyone would be silly not to take advantage of the program and I doubt you get much sentiment from a forum full of solar fanatics like me, who thinks the system is so awesome.

I'm still trying to figgure out why CA and AZ have it better than the rest of us. On top of the 50% state and govt tax credits they also get a reduced utility rate or what?

[Sunking]

I wonder how many panels have been tested for 25 years to demonstrate life expectancy. I think a lot of companies won't be around to honour their warranty (except the well established ones). What concerns me is all the installations done with government assistance. As panels fail, and have to be replaced at full expense to the owner, they will be too expensive (certainly not cost effective), and we'll end up with masses of government waste again, in unrepaired solar systems.

Problem is the government should have never given a dime to anyone in the first place. The government or I should say us will never see a dime return on what has already been invested.

It is not like say students loans where the government actually makes money. The student borrows the money at low interest rate, and then pays it back in which the government makes a little on interest. But the big long term kicker is that student now makes a lot more money and thus pays much higher taxes. The money being thrown into alternate energy is a big black hole. Most of which is going to overseas manufactures boosting their economies. Just read economic history, no subside program has ever worked.

[rhjames]

I read in another thread that some companies will probably go bankrupt and never honor a 25 year warranty. What companies are recommended that will probably be around in 25 years?
Sh

I wonder how many panels have been tested for 25 years to demonstrate life expectancy. I think a lot of companies won't be around to honour their warranty (except the well established ones). What concerns me is all the installations done with government assistance. As panels fail, and have to be replaced at full expense to the owner, they will be too expensive (certainly not cost effective), and we'll end up with masses of government waste again, in unrepaired solar systems.

[rollandelliott]

hard to research

Some of these companies are hard to research
Sun Electronics Inc. for example
It seems like the only mention of them is through the internet.
The only link/source of information is the distributor, www.sunelec.com
I doubt the distributor makes the panels, but I could be wrong. The distributor has been in business for 37 years and their warranty is pretty similar to other companies and they are 8 hrs away which is a lot closer than china. But honestly their prices seem a little bit TOO good to be true. So I'm being cautiously optimistic.

[Sunking]

I read in another thread that some companies will probably go bankrupt and never honor a 25 year warranty. What companies are recommended that will probably be around in 25 years?
Sharp, BP, Sanyo, and Kyocera were mentioned in another thread.

How about:
Evergreen
Sun
Dupont Solar
Canadian Solar
NBsolar
SunAli
EPV Solar?

Well do a little homework and look at the stock performance and financial on each and see what you think.

Evergreen has had negative earnings since Jan 2008. They just recently changed their ticker symbol from ESLR to ESLRD and had a reverse stock split to keep from being de-listed on NASDAQ. They shut down all manufacturing in th eUSA and Germany and in a last ditch effort is building a manufacturing plant in China with Massachusetts residence tax payers money subsidy. If you take the reverse split out they peaked in 2007 at around $300 per share down to less than 50 cents per share a few weeks ago before the state of Massachusetts bailed them out to allow them to reverse split and hold off the bond holders from taking over and sell it off. Tax payers are getting robbed, Evergreen will go under. There is no reason to bail any company out, even GM.

Dupont has been around forever and solar is a micro-fraction of their product line. They will survive.

So just do a little digging and you will get a better idea. Solar is a bubble and will bust. Governments cannot keep throwing money away.

[rollandelliott]

What companies have been around enough to honor a 25 year warranty?

I read in another thread that some companies will probably go bankrupt and never honor a 25 year warranty. What companies are recommended that will probably be around in 25 years?
Sharp, BP, Sanyo, and Kyocera were mentioned in another thread.

How about:
Evergreen
Sun
Dupont Solar
Canadian Solar
NBsolar
SunAli
EPV Solar?

[russ]

Do a search on the net - you have shown you are good at that. Many companies sell at reasonable prices.

The trick is to know what all is required including how to go about getting the OK from the utility for a grid connection.

Is there a feed in tariff in SC? Net metering? Start with your utility - maybe they will be helpful.

Russ

[SolarTekkie]

For sure, the canadian solar ones are well priced and UL listed...

[rollandelliott]

this sucks

I was gun hoe on making my own, but if I cant get the tax credits, that makes it uneconomical to make them myself. Better to just buy from sunelec.com

[SolarTekkie]

From what I have seen and read over the last few days, it's better to spend the extra $0.60-$0.79 a watt and just get a UL listed, manufactured panel.

With them hovering around $2/watt (much less if you want sub-100w panels) there really is no reason to take the risk. I have now built 2 panels which I'll try to find some use for, they look solid to me, but not worth the chance of a fire mounting them anywhere near my house after seeing and hearing of the horror stories. When eventually want to grid tie I'll just buy a bunch of 220 watt canadian solar panels for around $2/watt and be safe in the event that something goes wrong. (insurance and building code wise). In that situation I imagine I'll probably need to have certified personnel install them at a crazy fee, but insurance is insurance.

[batdog04]

My System

Hey, thanks Russ. I had to learn out of necessity. I couldn

[russ]

@ Kev - You are the type of guy who can do it. A true handyman with the skills and tools.

Most people have not tried this type of project before and they can easily end up with problems.

Well done and keep it up!

Russ