Are DIY Solar Panels Worth it?

[Mike90250]

Mike here, with the tri-tips!

When you measure your panel voltage, without a load on it, you are measuring "Open Circuit" voltage. This is slightly higher than the best power producing voltage of the same panel. It takes a complicated machine to solve and display the "Peak Power" curve. The peak power amps are a little less the short circuit amps, just to complicate things.

You can get an idea of how it works, by reading the labels off several PV panels, and see how these all relate to each other.

And congratulation on making your panels, as you discovered, it's quite a chore.

As to moisture, it causes corrosion, and once the fine metal layer over the top of the cell corrodes, you loose contact, and your power drops. The more moisture, the faster it degrades.

Mike

[ecusolar]

Wow, that's delicious togehter with an ice cold Guinness, it's called punta de lomo here in EC.

I love BBQ, we will built a pizza oven (but can be used for whatever) soon as well.

ps...this is what mike has on the grill... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tri-tip

[Jason]

Would it be ok if I copy the most important parts from the other forum to start up here?

You wrote it, so copy and paste away!

It would be great if you started it in another thread...I'd greatly appreciate it!


ps...this is what mike has on the grill... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tri-tip

[ecusolar]

Thanks for the welcome Jason.

Also to Mike for maintening this board, I manage 3 forums (financial) and know how much work it can be.

BTW: I'm always wondering what's on Mike's BBQ.

Would it be ok if I copy the most important parts from the other forum to start up here?

I agree...please do!

Thanks for posting ecusolar, welcome to solar panel talk.

Would you mind posting your project here at this forum? It would be greatly appreciated!

[Jason]

I think if we go deeper in that theme (and I'm interested in your idea and can it try as well) would be better if you open a thread to duscuss as it's off topic here I guess.

I agree...please do!

Thanks for posting ecusolar, welcome to solar panel talk.

Would you mind posting your project here at this forum? It would be greatly appreciated!

[ecusolar]

I like your idea of using argon and it's a gas which you find everywhere, I have to read about it's properties and wheight.

I used a medical needle (injections) which i passed through the silicon sealant and connected a borrowed vacuum pump to it in plain noon sun. Just with the panel heat at this hour will come out a huge ammount of air.
Once i finished i took off the needle, the micro hole was closed by the silicon pressure itself but I added some sealant to that space for security.

I think if we go deeper in that theme (and I'm interested in your idea and can it try as well) would be better if you open a thread to duscuss as it's off topic here I guess.

So, understanding your vaccum process and sealing steps would work if I tried my Argon idea.

Thanks, Bill

[BilljustBill]

My panels are very similar to the ones of Chris and I used vacuum to avoid corrosion.

I'm interested in how you pulled a vacuum on your panels, can you share? How long will a vacuum last while operating in full sun and in months of high heat? If/when it fails, wouldn't it pull in moisture when it neutralizes the pressure?

Here in the U.S., some portable electric wire welders use Argon as a gas shield while they operate. Since it is easily and economically available, one idea I had was when it came time to seal a panel, allow for both a small, yet sealable, exit tube at the top of the panel and one on the opposite side at the bottom of the panel to insert the Argon. There would be no negative or positive pressure, but enough Argon gas to evacuate most of the gases, and humidity, that cause corrosion. Then, allow it to lay there in a neutral pressure as you seal the straw holes with the same PV sealant.

So, understanding your vaccum process and sealing steps would work if I tried my Argon idea.

Thanks, Bill

[ecusolar]

Worth DIY Solar or not?

I have a small solar proyect (9 panels and I'll add 9 other now) running and it's DIY.

I made the panels by myself because I loved the challange and I can't get prices like in USA, if I would live there it would not be atractive to built them in DIY as you can get panels for about 1.70/W now and I believe that in the very near future they will be even much cheaper.
A 60W panel in Ecuador cost 300$, I was able to make them in 85$ and all of them generate 20 to 21V in noon sun.
The system isn't installed yet but I'm sure that all will work fine.

My panels are very similar to the ones of Chris and I used vacuum to avoid corrosion.

I don't care to much how long they will last, it can be 5 years maybe some more but I'm sure that in 5 years you can buy first class panels in the price of todays DIY so it will be easy to replace 'em if necesary.
I have an advantage that here you can connect DIY panels to the grid but the inverter have to qualified, the price of a grid KW/h is 0.12US$ but the goverment pay you 0.52 US$ for solar generated electric energy, make the calcs, it's a good biz.

[Jason]

I am very sorry to read the stories of people who think it is not possible to build your own solar panel AND keep it cheap !
The only thing with my panels is that the ultimate test is coming soon for my 8 panels totalling about 440 Wp. I am at the moment busy making a construction on my house to place and connect the panels to. And hopefully it will be not be within 5 years that I have to say : ok they do not last very long.... But perhaps that moment comes 15 Years from now.....and then I will say : I have succeeded !
Anyhow I am pretty confident that they will last over 5 years. And by that time they have paid themselves allmost fully back. The price : Euro 1,15 per Wp. (The cheapest panels I have seen sofar overhere in the Netherlands were E 1,80 per Wp. (note : If I use the factory specifications of my cells to calculate the Wp-value of my panel I will get a higher figure that will lower my Wp-price about 10%.....but I do not know the real Wp of my panels, I have no means of measuring that. So I call them a bit lower in Wp value)
Look at my websites : www.doctersnuggles.come2me.nl and www.doctersnuggles2.come2me.nl
Ofcourse I have done a long research. But I did find tempered glass for a very low price E 15 per sq meter. And I found solar cells from a solarcell-factory here in the Netherlands. They were their old cells(new but not sold for long,lying somewere on a shelf) , so I got them cheap. But I had to buy 1100 of them (about 2.5 Wp each) I have used 200 of them sofar in my 8 solar panels. And I will continue...........

Regards to all of you DIY-guys :- !!!!
Chris

Hi Chris, thanks for posting! I don't think its so much that people don't think it's not possible, the main concern is if it's economical. It just depends on the situation.

I'm glad to see you've had success with your panels...again thanks for the great detail on your websites.

[doctersnuggles]

My DIY solarpanels

I am very sorry to read the stories of people who think it is not possible to build your own solar panel AND keep it cheap !
The only thing with my panels is that the ultimate test is coming soon for my 8 panels totalling about 440 Wp. I am at the moment busy making a construction on my house to place and connect the panels to. And hopefully it will be not be within 5 years that I have to say : ok they do not last very long.... But perhaps that moment comes 15 Years from now.....and then I will say : I have succeeded !
Anyhow I am pretty confident that they will last over 5 years. And by that time they have paid themselves allmost fully back. The price : Euro 1,15 per Wp. (The cheapest panels I have seen sofar overhere in the Netherlands were E 1,80 per Wp. (note : If I use the factory specifications of my cells to calculate the Wp-value of my panel I will get a higher figure that will lower my Wp-price about 10%.....but I do not know the real Wp of my panels, I have no means of measuring that. So I call them a bit lower in Wp value)
Look at my websites : www.doctersnuggles.come2me.nl and www.doctersnuggles2.come2me.nl
Ofcourse I have done a long research. But I did find tempered glass for a very low price E 15 per sq meter. And I found solar cells from a solarcell-factory here in the Netherlands. They were their old cells(new but not sold for long,lying somewere on a shelf) , so I got them cheap. But I had to buy 1100 of them (about 2.5 Wp each) I have used 200 of them sofar in my 8 solar panels. And I will continue...........

Regards to all of you DIY-guys :- !!!!
Chris

[jestronix]

Some may find this article interesting http://www.dowcorning.com/content/pu...06-1023-01.pdf

The article (all be it stated by the makers of sylgard) mentions of some panels that were made in 1982 using sylgard, these are still pumping power out 25 years later. These were BP factory made panels, but they use a low tech method of encapsulation, one which us DIY can do at home. A 55w panel putting out 52 watts 25 years later its a good result. Surely if your a good at soldering your in business.

So there is hope and proven success of using low tech (sylgard) encapsulation for serious DIY power setups.

I know here in Australia you would be very hard pressed to find panels for the price I can make my own at, I know in the US you can find UL certified panels that match DIY.

I buy my cells from everbright solar in the US, they also make their own panels UL certified and very cheap http://www.everbrightsolar.net/sku20...lar201175.html

At the end of the day, I would never put my own home made panels on my roof and if I had the money I would buy a heap from the US and import them in.

However as I live in the country side and have lots of room, my panels will be separate from the house and isolated from fire risk. They are cheaper then any thing I could buy here and I dont mind the hours of soldering

If your in the US id have to say DIY is for fun really, as you can get UL cert panels.

But I dont think anyone can argue with that good feeling you get when you look over at your DIY panels, made buy you, making power for you

I think in the Next 10 years we are going to see Nanosolar pump out panels on the home market that will eat DIY prices.

[Mike90250]

If the cells are sealed in glass and silicone, would silica gel work "forever"?

I belive most common silicone (and epoxies) are permable to water vapor. Pretty slow rates, but still, it will get in. So, maybe, you can expect a couple of years.
Dual Glazed windows, have an average life of 5-10 years before the seals & bonding go bad, and they are factory made. It's really tough to seal something that goes thru the "Bake & Freeze" like a window or PV panel does

Perhaps bonding a 3" di stub of a pipe, to the air space of a panel, with a pipe cap, you would have a cavity, you can insert a bag of silica gel, and change it out every now and then?

[fireofenergy]

If the cells are sealed in glass and silicone, would silica gel work "forever"?

[Mike90250]

i always wondered if silica gel would help

Only till it's saturated. If you use wood, I'd guess nearly any amount of silica gel would be saturated in a year.
You can buy it by the tubfull at craft stores, and regenerate it in an oven @ 250F

[Jason]

i always wondered if silica gel would help

Of course, with DIY, got to start out small. I did so with leds, actually, Cree Q5, the most efficient light source available (to me anyways). I simply soldered ten .6A cells in series, and permanently sealed it with two pieces of 8 inch square glass and silicone. Years later, it still works. A little fog will accumulate but that goes away, perhaps I should throw in some of that silica "do not eat" stuff???

Wood will work, but only as a frame IF the encapsulated "product" can withstand warpage. Hopefully, my next experiments can withstand (with slight leeway).

Therefore, with aluminum frames, the main worry would be breakage (of the non tempered glass).

Now, (IF ONLY WE CAN GET TEMPERED GLASS FOR CHEAP, THEN) we would have the perfect DIY panel! Why, because, on e-bay, we can get 3.6 amp'ers for $1.50 apiece! That's like a dollar per watt and the satisfaction of being able to gradually build a larger setup.

I tried to read the scams about "DIY" but they suck because I asked a question and they simply try to steer me into their profit goals, They don't know where to get tempered glass and if you do, please let us all know!!!

Thanks