Encapsulating with EVA

[Mike90250]

....
Im just finishing up a solar tracker which will hold 1000 watts of panels. I still have to build the circuit for the 2 axis tracking...... Now you will hear that a tracker isn't worth the trouble and you don't gain much. That is a LIE. you will gain about 30 to 40 more percent and that's ALOT.
John

Ive seen the site of a large solar company, with about 8 tracker arrays in their parking lot. All have been broken and frozen for 6+ years.

I've been to a large off grid campsite, with about 4 of my size arrays (3Kw x 4) on 4 tracker poles. All broken, and unable to keep running. He had to re-align by hand and lock down.

I also know 1 person with a 800w passive tracker (uses butane inside hollow tubes as counterweights to track the sun. That is still working after 12 years.

So if you are building a smallish tracker (1kw) you are likely to know how it works and able to get replacement parts. But generally, they fail.

[russ]

Hi John - Alan is long gone as he was always being a wise ass.

You will make factory quality panels DIY?

My BS meter is going off scale up! Some might make an OK panel but not equal to factory.

Factory panels are a better deal in the long run.

[conntaxman]

eva

Eva is white plastic
edited to add the above is NOT right, I meant to type TEDLAR is white plastic.


the video guy you are talking does NOT use eva he is using sylgard, probably the most expensive solar encapsulant ever made.
I've made panels with dow 6010 and it works fine and even though the moderators on this forum who have probably never made a panel will tell you it will fail based on their theoretical guesses

I've never had an issue with mine.

Would you rather get information from someone who has actually done it or people that think it can't be done who sit in front of their computer searching the net for info to support their view?

Alan. you are correct, some people can make a panel just as good as one that is factory made, and that will last just as long.Some cant make or even know what tools to use to make a panel. I give everyone alot of credit for doing it or at least trying.
also what you are useing to encap. is a very good product.
Keep up the good work. Build and save money.
Im just finishing up a solar tracker which will hold 1000 watts of panels. I still have to build the circuit for the 2 axis tracking...... Now you will hear that a tracker isn't worth the trouble and you don't gain much. That is a LIE. you will gain about 30 to 40 more percent and that's ALOT.
John

[Mike90250]

..their are Many diy around that can produdce a very good panel. You are or can not build a panel , that is why you are down on everone here.
GET A LIFE.

Oh. Where are they after 2 years ? 1 year ?

I'm not "down on folks". I tell them save their $$, study this stuff and then decide for themselves. Go rag on the scam artists that sell a ebook or vid, about running a house on a $200 homemade PV array. I want folks to keep their $, I'm not scamming them to get their hard earned $.
"get a life" ? Why whatever do you mean?
Here are some magic beans, I'll sell you for $43,000 and when you plant them, you can eat steak forever, but I have to leave town now, so buy them quick, I don't want you to loose out on this terrific opportunity to save yourself.

[conntaxman]

diy solar panel

Mike you must lilke the LITTLE .... BOY.... obama.... Take heart man, their are Many diy around that can produdce a very good panel. You are or can not build a panel , that is why you are down on everone here.
GET A LIFE.
John

[russ]

Wow! Then you get to do the work to have something that maybe works OK.

Sorry - but for the 99% plus of the population that are not real DIY types this is not a good deal.

Plus as Mike pointed out - off grid applications only.

Enjoy Alan - No one is telling you not to do it. You are enjoying making up excuses why what you think is best - fine but who cares.

Russ

[Mike90250]

[QUOTE=flwildman;26089]

....

One thing I have noticed in this forum is there seems to be much more of
"you shouldn't do that" "buy a professional panel" "professional install" etc. than anything resembling real help from people that have done it and are offering real advice for the do it your selfer.

I can only assume that these folks sell and install "professional" panels from others.

You may be moderators and ranking members but I was led to believe this was a forum for those that actually wanted to do it themselves and were asking advice of others that had actually done it and succeeded. ......

Actually, I don't sell a thing, I'm an electronics engineer, and build satellites. (most have PV panels on them!)
I'm here to "keep it real" so the actual scammers selling snake oil, don't.
One side pushes the " build a PV panel to power your house and cut the electric company off, for $30 in junkyard parts." On this board, and others, I've seen the results of that: "I've got no money, the solar panel does not work, and my water pipes froze. What did I do wrong?"
Panels are great to build, to learn how they work. I discourage folks from buying and building $800 worth of parts, before they have built a trial one.
There are no "A" grade cells for sale on ebay (ok, at some point, some will get bootlegged out of a factory, but it is the rare exception), all the A grade get sold to panel mfg's, and the rejects are the ones you find on ebay and "replace the grid with this mystery box" kits.

And since there are no UL listed DIY panels, nor plug-in GT inverters, I tell folks, it seems like a good idea, but even if there are no inspectors, building codes, or insurance in your neighborhood, the electric grid will seldom knowingly allow any of these to be hooked up, and can / will disconnect you. Whoops. At least they are warned.

And I've got a yard full of store bought solar patio lights, with resin encapsulated cells on them, that are dead, no solar recharge. I just charge up batteries and let them run for a day or 3.

So the commercial panel mfg's have the recipe, I can share it, but can't make anyone use it. I've endorsed the fieldlines link someone posted, as a great way to make pretty reliable panels.

And I'm pretty sure most DIY panel makers, don't publish their failures, just the successes. We have one person here, that says he's had success with his method. Great, I'm still not a believer, but i'm glad he's having a good time.

You will find in any field, any honest professional will tell your the up side and down side of things, and salesmen and hucksters only show the upside.

And how do you deal with trying to help someone with a 80V panel, and they tossed the instructions for working a meter? If I say get someone to help you, I'm evading? or if I say plug red lead to the red cable, and they stuff it into the yellow, and die because they grabbed one wire in each hand, I can end up in jail for "bad advice". So I have to try to give references to somebody elses page with "advice".

going to bed now.
Mike

[russ]

Have fun!

Some decent looking DIY systems are made by capable types that have the tools and enjoy DIY. You can find some here is you look.

That covered less than 1% of the population - for the rest buying is by far the better, cheaper and safer choice that allows access to the subsidies and incentives.

Why in the world would I want to waste my time surfing the net reading up on DIY - I have zero interest in it.

If you don't like us so much - find another place. I really get a kick out of the type of person that walks in the room and says, 'OK - I am here and I may be new but here is what I think and how you have to do it'.

One forum I belong to people have to use their name - not the cute little things people like to use.

Retired and have never solar any solar materials. I do use solar thermal on new homes we build as a pass time. For many years I ran large construction project at different locations around the world. I got accustomed to listening to the stories about how people can do things and seeing the results.

Russ

[flwildman]

Thanks Alan

[QUOTE=Alan;26075]Eva is white plastic

I'm sorry perhaps I got confused, I thought the EVA was the resin the guy in the video was using, I came up with a DOW resin when googled, but regardless that is the exact encapsulation information I was asking for and I thank you for it.

One thing I have noticed in this forum is there seems to be much more of
"you shouldn't do that" "buy a professional panel" "professional install" etc. than anything resembling real help from people that have done it and are offering real advice for the do it your selfer.

I can only assume that these folks sell and install "professional" panels from others.

You may be moderators and ranking members but I was led to believe this was a forum for those that actually wanted to do it themselves and were asking advice of others that had actually done it and succeeded.

There are actually many of us out here that are not as lame and stupid as you seem to think, we only lack material knowledge.

If you are going to respond to someone that asks for help doing it themselves, either do that or don't bother to respond in DIY forums.

You may think you are being enlightening but most of what I have read from those I address is basically negative and unhelpful in a DIY forum.

Wouldn't your time be better spent enhancing your web page from where you sell your "skills" and "professional panels" or perhaps advertising your "skills" in another venue?

Maybe not everyone can afford a professional panel installed by a "professional", maybe don't care about tax credits, maybe feel they can and want to take a chance on their own skills to bring something about. I certainly do, I can and will.
Flame away.
Thanks again Alan

[russ]

first hand experience is always the best.

too bad more people dont have it

I don't have first hand experience at many things including bullfighting (avoiding BS is different - lots of experience there) but I really don't want any experience at bull fighting either.

Why would anyone want experience building panels today - when you can buy factory made panels cheaper?

Great for a science project or in a country where there are import duties or restrictions I suppose but getting the fancy sealants in those locations is difficult as well.

Russ

[Mike90250]

Eva is white plastic

EVA is basically a sheet of hot melt glue, needing a vacuum laminator to apply properly
(look for the link at fieldlines for a way to do it at home)

TEDLAR is a special, water vapor proof plastic used to seal the backsides of panels. Glass seals the front.

EVA is glue, Tedlar is vapor proof. - From a guy who never made a panel at home.

My only duty to to alert neophytes to methods that are
a) proven to not last long term >5 years
b) what is used in industry to make >20 year warranty panels.

Few, if any, paints and silicones are water vapor proof. (includes lexan, poycarbonate, epoxies and plywood)

[Alan]

first hand experience is always the best.

too bad more people dont have it

[russ]

Alan - Straighten up and fly right or fly elsewhere.

Your advice is based only on your own and short term experiences.

Russ

[Alan]

Eva is white plastic
edited to add the above is NOT right, I meant to type TEDLAR is white plastic.


the video guy you are talking does NOT use eva he is using sylgard, probably the most expensive solar encapsulant ever made.
I've made panels with dow 6010 and it works fine and even though the moderators on this forum who have probably never made a panel will tell you it will fail based on their theoretical guesses

I've never had an issue with mine.

Would you rather get information from someone who has actually done it or people that think it can't be done who sit in front of their computer searching the net for info to support their view?

[flwildman]

Eva, to cover back of panels or no

Like many I have been cruising the forums, pricing materials etc.
My main concern is the eva process and covering the back of the panel with an expensive product like Tedlar to control moisture which manufacturer states should be vacuum sealed and cooked.
I have watched the fellows videos on youtube, he sells the frames and glass that others here have posted about.

My question is this fellow that seems to know a great deal about the construction and the eva process but leaves his personal panels with the eva coating only. He lives in Alabama not far from me where humidity is often +70%.
I would like to know if anyone else has tried just leaving the panels uncoated on the back with only eva in high humidity areas and what results they have had.
Seems a much simpler way to do this and heat being a major factor in the equation I am thinking that unbacked would be the way to go. Thanks in advance.

btw this fellow uses a table with a large hole in it so he can see the other side of the panel and a vibrator attached to it to help with the spreading and coverage of the eva process.
I have not yet seen this stated anywhere in the forums and having workd with a lot of fiberglass the use of a vibrator is a real good idea. The hole in the table is trick as well. The link above shows this last step in a 3 part video.