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  • #31
    I'm still looking aroung for a new way to seal the panels . If I can find a new way to use something else I'm look into it.
    I think they use argon in light bulbs also. I have worked with nitrogen but in a different way then solar. I thought your vaccuum would be real good. I don't know about two pices of glass. One on top and the other on the bottom.
    I think your manual will be very good. I can't wait to see it.

    Comment


    • #32
      Different climas, different panel sealing

      I'll send the manual first to you to revise it before posting it in public.

      You know this sealing question depends a lot of the temperature you are using the panels I think.

      Look, in the cost of EC we have lowest temperature at about 25C and highest (in shadow) of about 40C, it never is below zero what can make that the sealing gets a lot of stress, that's why I say that the vacuum should work enough in my clima zone.

      Originally posted by DeltaFox 25 View Post
      I'm still looking aroung for a new way to seal the panels . If I can find a new way to use something else I'm look into it.
      I think they use argon in light bulbs also. I have worked with nitrogen but in a different way then solar. I thought your vaccuum would be real good. I don't know about two pices of glass. One on top and the other on the bottom.
      I think your manual will be very good. I can't wait to see it.

      Comment


      • #33
        Thank you for doing that . I'm honered and I'll read and tell you what is what .
        I like the pictures also.

        I seen where you had the needle and were taking air out that way , it sounded good .I wander if there could be a way to do it faster. I don't know how long would it take with the needle??

        I can sent you some snow that will cool things off. Ha Ha

        Comment


        • #34
          It doesn't take that long Wayne, I have about 1.5 liters of air in the space if I'm not too wrong and it takes about 4 minutes until the pump don't get more out.
          Next time I'll connect a vacuum meter to see how is the vacuum rate.

          Originally posted by DeltaFox 25 View Post
          Thank you for doing that . I'm honered and I'll read and tell you what is what .
          I like the pictures also.

          I seen where you had the needle and were taking air out that way , it sounded good .I wander if there could be a way to do it faster. I don't know how long would it take with the needle??

          I can sent you some snow that will cool things off. Ha Ha

          Comment


          • #35
            Thats not to bad at all. You have found a good way to do that.

            Comment


            • #36
              DYI Solar

              I stumbled upon your postings and have enjoyed following your progress. You are taking DYI Solar to a level I had not seen before. Congrats on your efforts. I'll admit I'm a bit envious of all that sun you get!

              I read with interest the process of bonding/evacuating the air in making the modules. I'm intrigued. I was in the commercial printing business for 30 years and still have a vacuum frame that would basically vacuum the air out between a base and a frame of glass to provide a tight pressure between a film and a plate before exposing to a bright light. I'm wondering if this obsolete machine might have a use in DYI Solar. It is a glass frame that measures 30" x 40". It was known as a flip-top plate burner. Maybe I'll hold onto it for a while...

              Those modules must be heavy? The frames seem very strong. The glass is shatter resistant? If not be careful if putting on the roof! Both while installing and in a windy storm, they could be lethal! Just a thought. Safety is always the first concern, or it should be.

              Take care and have fun working on this wonderful project.
              Solar Steve
              MaineStream Energy Alternatives, Inc. dba/ Saco Solar Store
              Saco, Maine
              [url]www.sacosolarstore.com[/url]

              Comment


              • #37
                you must be talking about my friend ecusolar. he is doing some very good panels.
                I'd keep that table for sure. Does it have heat also. if so you might be able to do EVA and tedlar just like manufactures do.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Mike brought me to an idea

                  Hi Steve, do you have a manual or a link to the facturer of this vacuum panel?

                  Maybe that way I can get deeper in to see if there is use for it.

                  I use normal window glass and didn't notice any volt droppage with or without the glass on top but I use a analog meter, in few days arrive my digital one
                  On the last panel design I don't use a frame, but a well done mounting rack and the weight comes only from the glass.
                  We never had storms here, mostly it's sunny, so that is out of question.

                  To the encapsulation:

                  I'm reading this post from "Tri-tips Mike" again and again :
                  As to moisture, it causes corrosion, and once the fine metal layer over the top of the cell corrodes, you loose contact, and your power drops. The more moisture, the faster it degrades.
                  Mike.


                  and come to a conclusion:

                  Why we don't apply a small string of silicone only on top of the soldered areas?

                  BTW: Mike can you tell me the reason why I always get hungry when I read your posts?

                  Originally posted by Solar Steve View Post
                  I stumbled upon your postings and have enjoyed following your progress. You are taking DYI Solar to a level I had not seen before. Congrats on your efforts. I'll admit I'm a bit envious of all that sun you get!


                  I read with interest the process of bonding/evacuating the air in making the modules. I'm intrigued. I was in the commercial printing business for 30 years and still have a vacuum frame that would basically vacuum the air out between a base and a frame of glass to provide a tight pressure between a film and a plate before exposing to a bright light. I'm wondering if this obsolete machine might have a use in DYI Solar. It is a glass frame that measures 30" x 40". It was known as a flip-top plate burner. Maybe I'll hold onto it for a while...

                  Those modules must be heavy? The frames seem very strong. The glass is shatter resistant? If not be careful if putting on the roof! Both while installing and in a windy storm, they could be lethal! Just a thought. Safety is always the first concern, or it should be.

                  Take care and have fun working on this wonderful project.
                  Last edited by ecusolar; 12-14-2009, 06:35 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    The machine looks like this one: http://www.getsinc.com/equipment/use...ker/index.html

                    No heat - a 1,000 watt light to expose the plates though...
                    Solar Steve
                    MaineStream Energy Alternatives, Inc. dba/ Saco Solar Store
                    Saco, Maine
                    [url]www.sacosolarstore.com[/url]

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      1000W lamps can deliver a lot of heat, I imagen that the lamp is inside the box.
                      So if I understand well, this glass panel has a vacuum pump to make pressure to whatever is between the glass and the base, isn't it?

                      You could use this table, especially the vacuum pump to get the air out of of the sealed panels.

                      The heat of the lamp can be useful if you decide to use Sylguard 182.

                      Anyhow needs to have a testdrive.

                      Originally posted by Solar Steve View Post
                      The machine looks like this one: http://www.getsinc.com/equipment/use...ker/index.html

                      No heat - a 1,000 watt light to expose the plates though...
                      Last edited by ecusolar; 12-14-2009, 07:32 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        vacuum will lower your thermal transfer from hot cells. just like a thermos bottle, and you will likely see cell voltages go way down, as they heat up. fill ith inert gas seems good. Argon, Co2, Nitrogen...
                        Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
                        || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
                        || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

                        solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
                        gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Make sense Mike.

                          I could not see any difference under full sun yet but under no load and that might change when I connect the inverter, or not?

                          I'll give it a try with CO2 as I have several tanks here from the beer dispenser.

                          Originally posted by Mike90250 View Post
                          vacuum will lower your thermal transfer from hot cells. just like a thermos bottle, and you will likely see cell voltages go way down, as they heat up. fill ith inert gas seems good. Argon, Co2, Nitrogen...

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by ecusolar View Post
                            ...
                            I'll give it a try with CO2 as I have several tanks here from the beer dispenser.
                            Just don't "pop the glass" with the pressure. And be careful, if the cells are glued to the glass, they will flex along with the glass, and eventually crack.
                            Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
                            || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
                            || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

                            solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
                            gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Yes, I miss-stated - it does produce heat. The lamp does, of course, give off heat. The unit is well ventilated as heating the unit could melt the rubber sealing gasket and cause issues with the film and plates. Before we send it off to be recycled we will look into whether any solar hobbiests would have any interest. The modules would have to be less than 30" x 40" however.
                              Solar Steve
                              MaineStream Energy Alternatives, Inc. dba/ Saco Solar Store
                              Saco, Maine
                              [url]www.sacosolarstore.com[/url]

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                I wouldn't built pressure, only fill the panels with the gas, I already have an idea how to manage that and will post when it's done.

                                Actually we are with a lot of work in the hotel and I have to help my wife keeping the guests in good mood. That's called public relation, lol.

                                Originally posted by Mike90250 View Post
                                Just don't "pop the glass" with the pressure. And be careful, if the cells are glued to the glass, they will flex along with the glass, and eventually crack.

                                Comment

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