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Thread: New to Solar. Help with 3 Line Diagram/ Wiring Diagram

  1. #1

    Default New to Solar. Help with 3 Line Diagram/ Wiring Diagram

    Hello,

    I am new to solar but I have been working with someone who has been working with solar for years. He has taught me a lot about solar and I am interested in learning more. Recently he has been trying to get me to study 3-line diagrams because he wants me to be able to create them for some of our future jobs. I realize that this will take some time getting used to, and I am in no rush, but I don't think it would be that difficult to get the logistics.

    I have a few questions....

    1. First of all, what would be the best program/software to work on a 3 line diagram. I can buy whatever, but I want whatever program makes it the easiest.

    2. Should every 3 line design be different for each job? Do they correspond with a diagram or map of the house or are they meant to be rough examples of how the solar wiring would be on a house.

    3. Whats the best way to learn the software for creating a 3 line diagram? Should I just play around and see if I could figure it out on my own? Are there any tutorial videos out there teaching you how to create a 3-line diagram?

    Like I said, I am new to solar, but I want to learn as much as I can. I want to be able to help my boss by creating these diagrams and making a little extra cash. I have seen many basic ones that he or someone he knows have created and they are fairly simple. I almost feel like I could recreate it in MS paint, but I know there are easier programs for doing these diagrams.

    I am from Westchester county in New York and below is a design that my boss made that was declined by the Rockland county engineer. What is this diagram missing that he should have put on it? How can I make this design pass inspection?



    If the link doesn't work just copy and paste the url.

    Thanks for any help.

    Brett

  2. #2
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    Do you have any background in electrical? Software is the asy part - you need to know what you are doing.

  3. #3
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    OK a couple of things wrong on that drawing
    It appears there are three strings of collectors in the array. This will require a fused combiner.
    Second sizes of conductors are not specified.
    No bonding is indicated.
    No specification on the size or ratings on the buss bars of the panel.
    Input location for the breaker from the inverter is in the wrong position. Should be at opposite end of panel from main utility breaker.sample one line.pdf
    Rich
    WWW.solarsaves.net

    NABCEP certified Technical Sales Professional

    http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/showth...Battery-Design

    http://www.calculator.net/voltage-drop-calculator.html (Voltage drop Calculator among others)

    www.gaisma.com

  4. #4

    Default

    Thanks for the imput. I'll look into fixing those errors on the diagram. My boss is an electrician by profession and I am apprenticing under him to learn all the terminology. I know its not all about the software, and right now I have a basic knowledge of electric as I have only worked 2 jobs with him. I plan to learn as much as I can so that I can help him with these diagrams. He asked me to help him because he knows that I am fairly savvy with computer programs and such. I have plenty of time to learn how to do these diagrams; like I said I am in no rush.

    As for the computer programs go- whats the best one for making 3-line diagrams?

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown View Post
    It appears there are three strings of collectors in the array. sample one line.pdf
    Are we looking at the same diagram as the photo in the post? I see one series string of more than three panels, all with a common protective ground.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by inetdog View Post
    Are we looking at the same diagram as the photo in the post? I see one series string of more than three panels, all with a common protective ground.
    No what I posted is an example.
    What the AHJ's seem to look for are
    String voltage calculations.
    Max amperage on wires from combiner to inverter.
    Wire sizes per NEC
    Bonding

    In the post Quoted, are you referring to the drawing in the attachment? My attachment is an example not the corrected one for the OP.

    And while we are on the subject these are called one line drawings not 3 line drawings.
    Rich
    WWW.solarsaves.net

    NABCEP certified Technical Sales Professional

    http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/showth...Battery-Design

    http://www.calculator.net/voltage-drop-calculator.html (Voltage drop Calculator among others)

    www.gaisma.com

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown View Post
    No what I posted is an example.
    What the AHJ's seem to look for are
    String voltage calculations.
    Max amperage on wires from combiner to inverter.
    Wire sizes per NEC
    Bonding

    In the post Quoted, are you referring to the drawing in the attachment? My attachment is an example not the corrected one for the OP.

    And while we are on the subject these are called one line drawings not 3 line drawings.
    When I look at the original post, I see a text reference to a "three line drawing" and directly under it is what appears to be an illustration from a manual. The only link I can find in the post is the one to your example one line drawing with tables and all the good stuff. Interestingly, the way I found that was by trying to copy the URL associated with the illustration! Either somebody has edited the original poster's link out of the message, or I just can't find it.

    Strange, isn't it?

  8. #8

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    "It appears there are three strings of collectors in the array. This will require a fused combiner."

    My boss said that a combiner is not necessary because the voltage wasn't that high.

    He did say that the rest of the information was good to know. So thanks.

    I still haven't got the answer as to what is the best computer software to make these diagrams.
    Once again, thanks for all the help.

  9. #9
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    Fuses are not for voltage, they control (stop) excess amps. 2 strings need no fuse, 3 need it, 1 device on each string. 2 strings can fry a damaged 3rd string.
    Tell your boss to get over it, and learn.

    Or get rejected again.
    Since the dawn of time it has been mankind's dream to blot out the sun.
    Montgomery Burns

    "Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it."

    spreadsheet based voltage drop calculator:
    http://www.solar-guppy.com/download/...calculator.zip
    http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/showth...oss-calculator

    http://www.mike-burgess.org/PVinfo_2.html

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,
    battery lugs http://tinyurl.com/LMR-BigLug
    Setting up batteries http://tinyurl.com/LMR-NiFe

    gear :
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV || || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

  10. #10
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    For drawing, I used visio

    Google sketch is supposed to be ok too

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