Help choosing between quotes

[malba2366]

Hi guys,

I got three quotes (2 local companies and then Sunrun through Costco). All three are sort of all over the place and I am unsure of really where to proceed from here. Appreciate any thoughts/comments.

$21,000
18 Hanwha 305-watt panels (106% of electric)
Inverter: SolarEdge SE-5000A-US
Optimizers: SolarEdge P320
Total Power: 5,490 watts
1st Year Generation: 6,884 kilowatt-hours

$16,400
15 LG 320N1K-A5 (100% of electric)
Inverters 15x Enphase Energy IQ6PLUS
Peak power 4.8 kW
Annual Production 6,494 kilowatt hours

24,750 110% of electric.
18 x LG330N1C-A5
Inverter 1x Ginlong 1P5k-4G-US
5.94 kW
Annual production 7258kilowat hours

All 3 quotes are too high. Aim for $3.10-3.20 a watt before any incentives with all top quality equipment (Panasonic/LG/Sunpower panels and Enphase/Solaredge inverter), and $2.70 a watt with lower quality panels (ie. hanwha)

[Mike90250]

I would get the enphase micro inverters, since 2017 National Elec. Code requires module level shut down, I think that gives a boost to Enphase in the long run. String inverters used to be cheaper, but not anymore due to the new rules requiring modules on every panel. The issue with string inverters is none of the manufacturers support them well after a few years. Sunny Boy one of the biggest inverter makers, has come out with 3 new lines in the last decade. They had their original, then 20 series, then 40, and now 41 series. When I call them for support on their original they say it's not made any more and that he will have to get back to me. When string inverters fail, it is typically a cheap less than $10 relay or capacitor, but unless you are good at electronics, that tiny part will make you need to buy an entire new inverter.

The Schneider XW lineup has 10 year warranty. if they are on an outbuilding, pole mount or ground mount, the dwelling requirements for module level shutdown, don't apply.

[khanh dam]

I would get the enphase micro inverters, since 2017 National Elec. Code requires module level shut down, I think that gives a boost to Enphase in the long run. String inverters used to be cheaper, but not anymore due to the new rules requiring modules on every panel. The issue with string inverters is none of the manufacturers support them well after a few years. Sunny Boy one of the biggest inverter makers, has come out with 3 new lines in the last decade. They had their original, then 20 series, then 40, and now 41 series. When I call them for support on their original they say it's not made any more and that he will have to get back to me. When string inverters fail, it is typically a cheap less than $10 relay or capacitor, but unless you are good at electronics, that tiny part will make you need to buy an entire new inverter.

[CharlieEscCA]

First time back in several months. I've decided I'm off to pop some popcorn

[rmk9785e]

Thank you, J.P.M. Your posts have helped me becoming better informed and make good decisions. Please keep up the good work.

[ButchDeal]

while JPM's comments may seem a bit harsh, but to be fair it's the harsh truth, some people don't want to hear that, but I for one am glad that there's someone here to provide it. I based on this, I looked into a couple things that I hadn't fully considered, and I'm glad I did.

Some people like their state of bliss

[J.P.M.]

FWIW, I used EnergySage to get my initial round of quotes, I got one unreasonably high $3.77/w, two in the $3.15-$3.25 range, and one $3.05/W but was over quoting annual delivery rates. The $3.77W didn't want to play ball when I asked them to adjust their rates, so they got dropped. A couple complaints on the $3.25 guy (complaints where on yelp), so dropped him. I had the $3.15 guy over and got down to him writing up a contract.

I also, asked on Nextdoor.com (it's a neighborhood community board) for other developers. And the predominate company was a small local outfit. I had them come over as well. I like the guy, fellow Engineer, so I could talk details with him. At the end, I liked what he was proposing, but his rates were a bit too high at $3.47/W, so I asked him to bring it down, and I showed numbers from the two competing proposals, and he backed it down some, through in a consumption meter, and is providing a some dispensation on the back end, to be just a bit more competitive on the post tax incentive Net cost per Watt. This is the guy I'm using. But I would have been just as happy using the other guy who had written up a contract.

I wouldn't just go through Costco dealers.

All this said, after reading the conversation, while JPM's comments may seem a bit harsh, but to be fair it's the harsh truth, some people don't want to hear that, but I for one am glad that there's someone here to provide it. I based on this, I looked into a couple things that I hadn't fully considered, and I'm glad I did. Until you have a decent understanding of everything (and it's going to vary from area to area, utility company to utility company) and run some numbers, you're not going to know how beneficial putting solar in is, or even if it's going to effectively be a money sink.

On reality: Like I write from time to time, welcome to the forum of few(er) illusions.

[TAZ427]

Also I forgot to ask if Energysage is a quality site. I did fill that out and I have about 7 quotes in there I am currently reviewing along side these now. It seems like they are good starting points and if I like one I will have to reach out to get some minor more specific adjustments.

FWIW, I used EnergySage to get my initial round of quotes, I got one unreasonably high $3.77/w, two in the $3.15-$3.25 range, and one $3.05/W but was over quoting annual delivery rates. The $3.77W didn't want to play ball when I asked them to adjust their rates, so they got dropped. A couple complaints on the $3.25 guy (complaints where on yelp), so dropped him. I had the $3.15 guy over and got down to him writing up a contract.

I also, asked on Nextdoor.com (it's a neighborhood community board) for other developers. And the predominate company was a small local outfit. I had them come over as well. I like the guy, fellow Engineer, so I could talk details with him. At the end, I liked what he was proposing, but his rates were a bit too high at $3.47/W, so I asked him to bring it down, and I showed numbers from the two competing proposals, and he backed it down some, through in a consumption meter, and is providing a some dispensation on the back end, to be just a bit more competitive on the post tax incentive Net cost per Watt. This is the guy I'm using. But I would have been just as happy using the other guy who had written up a contract.

I wouldn't just go through Costco dealers.

All this said, after reading the conversation, while JPM's comments may seem a bit harsh, but to be fair it's the harsh truth, some people don't want to hear that, but I for one am glad that there's someone here to provide it. I based on this, I looked into a couple things that I hadn't fully considered, and I'm glad I did. Until you have a decent understanding of everything (and it's going to vary from area to area, utility company to utility company) and run some numbers, you're not going to know how beneficial putting solar in is, or even if it's going to effectively be a money sink.

[paris401]

JPM... keep up what u are doing...

[J.P.M.]

Just when you thought you have seen it all with internet trolls, you have one hanging out on a solar panel forum. rip city. If I was solar pete I would ban you from the forum. No amount of knowledge is worth the type of attitude you bring towards new members. I am glad I wasn't the only one who noticed it. I have actually seen this play out before on the Spiceworks forums, with a user there who had the same type of attitude, and used his initials for his username as well! Google Scott Allen Miller Spiceworks and read through that, maybe it will open your eyes that it isn't rewarding being a dip**** to people looking for information.

If your above spoor is referring to my posts here and their content, and if it's any comfort to you, a few years ago, Solar Pete also has written that I'm a condescending so and so.

Since this forum is not a democracy, you, I, or anyone can be banned on a whim. Usually, it appears that folks are most often sunsetted or banned for persistently posting dangerous or misleading information and or opinions, trolling for leads, just dead wrong stuff, or just being consistent and persistent buttholes. We're all here at the forum owners' leisure and forbearance.

Since I'm still here, my assumption is I'm not in one of those categories, at least not most of the time. But, like noses, opinions vary, with most everyone having their own, and most of them smelling at least some of the time - mine, yours and Solar Pete's. I get a post yanked 1X/awhile, but I chalk that up as part of the price of having some strong opinions and an attitude about some things, mostly (I'd like to think) unfettered ignorance.

As for banning, at the end of the day, Solar Pete has the only opinion that counts.

As I wrote, have a nice life.

Take what you want off the above. Scrap the rest.

[Sunny9090]

Just when you thought you have seen it all with internet trolls, you have one hanging out on a solar panel forum. rip city. If I was solar pete I would ban you from the forum. No amount of knowledge is worth the type of attitude you bring towards new members. I am glad I wasn't the only one who noticed it. I have actually seen this play out before on the Spiceworks forums, with a user there who had the same type of attitude, and used his initials for his username as well! Google Scott Allen Miller Spiceworks and read through that, maybe it will open your eyes that it isn't rewarding being a dip**** to people looking for information.

[DanS26]

JPM....I've been around here for awhile. Your posts are a good balance between expert condescending and newby you gotta learn some more.

Keep doing what you have been doing....it seems the right mix.

[J.P.M.]

From JPM : Either or any way, to those snowflakes who thing I'm condescending and rude: Grow up, get a sack, and stop wasting electrons bitching about what amounts to straight talk that you may feel offends your childish sensibilities.
JPM your the Snowflake pal and your the one who needs to grow a pair and quit acting like a spolied kid who was never spanked or disciplined as a child , again we appreciate your knowledge with solar but don't let it make your head swell and think you are better than everyone else . I know this won't offend you because then that would just be childish for you, man up cowboy , anyway I tried to get you to see the error of your ways but it fell on deaf ears so back to solar talk we go.............. lol

Thank you for your insightful observations into my inner workings and your suggestions for possible improvements. I'll be sure to give them all the consideration they deserve.

[J.P.M.]

JPM,

You may be a big fan of solar but honestly you should re-evaluate the way you interact with people on the forum. Your writing and tone come off very poor and attacking towards someone who is new. Honestly I almost left the site and never came back after your first response but glad I did as I knew there would be some better information for me to dig into.

I agree with this . JPM you haven't been rude to me yet but I have seen you do it to others on here over and over telling them of their ignorance because they ask a question or say something you don't agree with I can only guess why you do this , are you unhappy , have depression ? , you weren't taught manners growing up ? you might want to pick up a book by Dale Carnegie " How to win friends and Influence people " because some of your comments do come off rude condescending and insulting , you are one of the leading experts here on this forum and we appreciate your vast knowledge but that attitude is a big turn off and you and I know this isn't the first time you have been called out about it and I'm wondering why you do it here on the forum I assume you would be more cordial when talking face to face with someone , can you imagine a college professor with a vast knowledge of a certain subject treating his students like this when they ask a question ? So inquiring minds want to know why the rude attitude ?

Rant mode on.

Opinions vary.

Take what you want of my writing and advice such as it is. I usually point out mistakes as I see them or different ways to look at some situations based on what I've learned over 40+ years of being around solar energy and almost as long as being a P.E. designing and engineering pretty good size power systems and energy production equipment. I try to do and give my safest and best advice based on what I think I might know, and willing to accept correction when in error, but not let feelings get in the way of honest, accurate and clear communication.

As for style, I don't believe anything I wrote in this thread has been directed at the OP personally. More in the way of suggestions and maybe a bit of Socratic questioning. I don't see that as rude.

Those who do are more than able to hit the ignore button. It matters not one whit to me.

Not everyone who tells you what you might not like is trying to hurt your feelings or being rude to you.

Besides, others may read what I bloviate about and maybe be able to get another perspective from my mental spoor about things they may not know of or have not considered.

Either or any way, to those snowflakes who think I'm condescending and rude: Grow up, get a sack, and stop wasting electrons bitching about what amounts to straight talk that you may feel offends your childish sensibilities.

I forgot to add: FWIW, ignorance is a condition and the result of not knowing something, not a pejorative statement about someone's mental capabilities. Those who think calling out someone's actions or opinions based on their ignorance to be insulting are ignorant of the meaning of the word "ignorant".

I'm ignorant about most everything, but that ignorance doesn't make me inferior or stupid - just uninformed.

Rant mode off.

[Mike90250]

Sadly, all the experts here are :
unpaid volunteers
living what we preach, or were/are professionals in solar/electrical
trying to only give safe instructions, not endorsing unsafe or illegal practices
are busy with our own lives and likely don't need anymore friends
Are NOT sales droids and have NO NEED to influence people.

For every question asked twice in the same thread, ignorance or inability to comprehend the answer, falls on the querent.