Conservation - "Automatic Smart Light Timers"

[davidcheok]

I must agree with this. Decades ago I found that night lights that only
come on with motion detection use so little power, they do not show
up beyond the noise on my electric bill. This even with incandescent
at that time. Replacing one or two all night lights, this allowed me to
to use a lot more of them to completely cover the area. My first house
had 7, for 3 buildings here I have 10.

Besides making it easy to walk around at night, I see them as much
more effective for security. Looking out in the darkness I know nothing
warm is out there. And any intruders will not know what to expect when
lights suddenly start coming on, anywhere in the area. Bruce Roe

Yeah this is spot on. It is easy to draw attention to darkness suddenly lighting up then one that is constantly lit especially as a security feature for outdoors. Cloud based LED smart lights are good for turning indoor lights on and off to imitate house occupation.

[bcroe]

Please, avoid dawn to dusk lamps that dont have motion sensors. I built my house long ago in an area with dark skies, they have become far less dark as folks install dawn to dusk yard lights that stay on all night. IMO its light pollution.

I must agree with this. Decades ago I found that night lights that only
come on with motion detection use so little power, they do not show
up beyond the noise on my electric bill. This even with incandescent
at that time. Replacing one or two all night lights, this allowed me to
to use a lot more of them to completely cover the area. My first house
had 7, for 3 buildings here I have 10.

Besides making it easy to walk around at night, I see them as much
more effective for security. Looking out in the darkness I know nothing
warm is out there. And any intruders will not know what to expect when
lights suddenly start coming on, anywhere in the area. Bruce Roe

[peakbagger]

Please, avoid dawn to dusk lamps that dont have motion sensors. I built my house long ago in an area with dark skies, they have become far less dark as folks install dawn to dusk yard lights that stay on all night. IMO its light pollution. I do have LED flood lights that I use on occasion, but they are switched (one of the uses of my ancient X-10 system). I also have outdoor cameras that have infrared illumination that works pretty well without lighting up the neiighborhood.

[azdave]

Please just save yourself a lot of headaches from downloading apps, wifi & bluetooth connectivity, registering accounts, sitting at your PC or flipping through your smartphone and just buy a few daylight-sensing LED light bulbs. Job done. You'll never have to worry about all of that other nonsense. Time is precious.

Here's a 2-pack on Amazon with free shipping. They can be up and running in 30 seconds after you open the box. I use these in coach lamps on each side of my my garage and have a motion sensing version of these bulbs in my tool shed and rear walkway to the garage.
Gonhom 2 Pack Dusk to Dawn Light Bulbs Outdoor, 5000K-Daylight, 720LM, 9W(60W Equivalent) A19 E26 Automatic On/Off LED Light Bulbs, Dusk to Dawn LED Outdoor Lighting for Porch Garage Patio

[albert436]

The problem is that most of the newer devices are meant to be run with your phone app which is really a cloud app that is connected to the internet.

You already have cameras. Do you watch your cameras on your phone? Cameras send data to internet, internet to cloud app, cloud app to internet, internet to phone.

When you add an app to your phone, you OK a multipage agreement that says it's OK for the app to have access to your camera, microphone, data, stored pictures, location history, etc, etc. As they say in any internet security talk or video special, your phone isn't a phone, it is a computer with your life history in your hand.

The problem isn't cameras or smart switches, it's how they are implemented using a cloud app and your phone. And you're right, most secure solutions cost money, your time and your knowledge to implement. If this is a little over your head, you can read about potential solutions on the internet. Figuring out your exact solution would be difficult to advise over an internet forum.

I may be overreacting to internet security issues, but this is how I deal with the unknown internet.

Yes I view my cameras and alerts on my phone. Anyway, I linked this discussion over to my computer guy to see if he knows anything about this subject. But I see what you mean. I <<think>> I am not important enough for anyone to hack my cameras but who knows. Most of the crime around this area where I live, seems to be theft, burglaries, vandalism, crazy people making threats on the street, etc. It has increased sharply, apparently due to the huge increase in homeless people, sadly. Bicycle theft is off the charts.

[oregon_phil]

The problem is that most of the newer devices are meant to be run with your phone app which is really a cloud app that is connected to the internet.

You already have cameras. Do you watch your cameras on your phone? Cameras send data to internet, internet to cloud app, cloud app to internet, internet to phone.

When you add an app to your phone, you OK a multipage agreement that says it's OK for the app to have access to your camera, microphone, data, stored pictures, location history, etc, etc. As they say in any internet security talk or video special, your phone isn't a phone, it is a computer with your life history in your hand.

The problem isn't cameras or smart switches, it's how they are implemented using a cloud app and your phone. And you're right, most secure solutions cost money, your time and your knowledge to implement. If this is a little over your head, you can read about potential solutions on the internet. Figuring out your exact solution would be difficult to advise over an internet forum.

I may be overreacting to internet security issues, but this is how I deal with the unknown internet.

[albert436]

Solutions fall into two camps:

Camp #1: I don't care about internet security. This is the easiest solution to implement but might open up your network/data to the outside world.

Camp #2: I care about internet security. This is harder to implement and might/will take some equipment/knowledge upgrades.

I'm in Camp #2. I run my limited number of smart switches/outlets on a subnet where contact to other subnets or to the internet are blocked on my Ubiquiti router. I can initiate contact to the smart switches from my main network or from the outside world through the built in VPN. I control the smart switches using Home Assistant.

Before I set up my subnets and VPN's, I used mechanical timers to control lights when I was away from home. This is a very easy solution to implement. Getting smart switches might seem like an easy solution, but once you go down that path, you start thinking about other things. Ok I switched on the light remotely, but do I need to know if that really happened? Do I need cameras to verify?

I really don't use a lot of smart switches or outlets. They are just another complication. Standards change, companies go out of business.

Yeah subnets, I have not heard of that before. I do have cameras so no prob there.

Integrated security gateway, Unifi, mentioned in google hits for Ubiquity router. Are these the things that allow your security setup to function? As I say, a little over my head.

[albert436]

I googled X-10 and need to read up on it in order to figure out just how they work.

I saw both of those light bulbs online. I don't need the ones that change color. What is your thinking on the computer security aspect? Is there a way to isolate those I wonder? Someone probably already provided an answer above but I just don't understand it that well.

[davidcheok]

I think smart bulbs like the phillips hue or wiz do very well. They are scheduleable and dimmable to mimick human schedules from the app itself.

[peakbagger]

I use ancient X-10 tech around the house. I pick it up cheap on Ebay. Pretty primitive but does what I need it to. Leviton made a heavy duty grade that used the system that seems to be more durable.

[albert436]

That would not be good.

[SunEagle]

Solutions fall into two camps:

Camp #1: I don't care about internet security. This is the easiest solution to implement but might open up your network/data to the outside world.

Camp #2: I care about internet security. This is harder to implement and might/will take some equipment/knowledge upgrades.

I'm in Camp #2. I run my limited number of smart switches/outlets on a subnet where contact to other subnets or to the internet are blocked on my Ubiquiti router. I can initiate contact to the smart switches from my main network or from the outside world through the built in VPN. I control the smart switches using Home Assistant.

Before I set up my subnets and VPN's, I used mechanical timers to control lights when I was away from home. This is a very easy solution to implement. Getting smart switches might seem like an easy solution, but once you go down that path, you start thinking about other things. Ok I switched on the light remotely, but do I need to know if that really happened? Do I need cameras to verify?

I really don't use a lot of smart switches or outlets. They are just another complication. Standards change, companies go out of business.

And as most have found out a smart device can be hacked by outside people which unfortunately is a doorway into a homes internet system.

[albert436]

Yeah that's crazy that those low watt lightbulbs could run up such a big bill. That is also what I found with my 4 ceiling fans running them continuously during a heat wave or three.

I'm thinking that during peak hours, in winter I might turn on one of the lights around 6pm, and alternate it a couple of times with the other lights till 9pm. Then turn back on/off randomly during off and super off peak. I haven't really thought that part through yet.

Solar guy was just out here, things may be a little more complicated than I realized. Something about my panel rating and that to not deal with SDGE they could put in a bus bar with a higher amp rating etc etc $2,000 etc. Because with my current setup I could only put in 11 or so panels, he thinks. He is going to run it through their magic and highly advanced software and see what it spits out.

Reminds me of a punchline to a joke, the computer tape spits out BIMMMSPCOT, the guy says what's that mean? "Be in Mississippi monday morning, start picking cotton on Tuesday."

There look now I have hijacked my own thread . . .

[J.P.M.]

When I am out of town I leave three lights burning, all LED bulbs.
I guess that about wraps up the round-up.Can anyone make some recommendations on these things? Looking for one where no hub is needed so I can control it from my phone.

Thanks!

Yea, maximize your savings. Lights are not much of a deterrent anyway - they only help bad guys see what they can steal.
Save (262 kWh/yr.)*(portion of a year you leave those lights on while gone).

Using the latest DR-SES rate from SDG & E, the cost of 1kW of power delivered for 8,760 continuous hours = $3.941.09 for a full year at an average cost of : $3,941.09/kW per year /8,760 hrs./yr. = $0.44990/kWh.

So, as a 1st approximation, over a year, your 30 W of LED's energy use cost on average and depending on when over the year they are burning:

(.03 kW)*(24 hrs.)*($0.4499/kWh) = $0.32328/day if burning for 24 hours. More cost in summer, less cost in winter.

If timers are used, say 12 hrs./day, the savings are probably something like half that, maybe a bit more due to peak summer hours having more daylight hrs. and so perhaps less need for lighting until after 8 P.M. in the summer and greater need for peak lighting in the winter, but that would be offset some by lower peak winter rates vs. peak summer rates.

For ~ $0.32/2 per day while you're gone, I'd either skip the lights altogether as not much use with respect to security or consider that timers, while not too much in initial cost seem to fail after a short time. It also depends on how often the lights are used.

[albert436]

Solutions fall into two camps:

Camp #1: I don't care about internet security. This is the easiest solution to implement but might open up your network/data to the outside world.

Camp #2: I care about internet security. This is harder to implement and might/will take some equipment/knowledge upgrades.

I'm in Camp #2. I run my limited number of smart switches/outlets on a subnet where contact to other subnets or to the internet are blocked on my Ubiquiti router. I can initiate contact to the smart switches from my main network or from the outside world through the built in VPN. I control the smart switches using Home Assistant.

Before I set up my subnets and VPN's, I used mechanical timers to control lights when I was away from home. This is a very easy solution to implement. Getting smart switches might seem like an easy solution, but once you go down that path, you start thinking about other things. Ok I switched on the light remotely, but do I need to know if that really happened? Do I need cameras to verify?

I really don't use a lot of smart switches or outlets. They are just another complication. Standards change, companies go out of business.

Thanks for your reply.

I've got some mechanical timers on a couple of lights and radio in my (currently vacant) rear unit. But the lights I want to control up front are on regular switches so not sure how I would rig my front and back porch lights or bathroom light with a mechanical timer.

Maybe I don't know what type you are talking about though. The ones I have plug into an outlet, then you plug your lamp or radio into that. There's a round face with basically time markers that you can set. As the face clock rotates, it clicks the power on and off on the timer. Or are you talking about something that takes the place of a wall switch ?

I went ahead and ordered a $15 on-sale switch from amazon, when I get around to installing it then I shall see how well it works and post back here.

I ordered this one, like I say we shall see how it works. But I am also intrigued about the smart light bulbs, it just seems simpler. I don't totally understand all of what you were saying about internet security to be honest. Maybe that is something I should consider too.