Your Own Off the Grid Solar System in California

[jflorey2]

We're not allowed to burn the brush out like nature intended to have happen.

We're allowed to cut it back, which we do every year. (Actually sorta glad none of my neighbors can "burn their brush out" given how quickly brush fires spread.)

Generally, metal carports don't burn. Cal fire is not evaluating on real hazards, they go by building count and imagine 6 people occupy each building, which is why they want a road that can have 3 trucks coming in, and 3 out, to rescue my wife and I. It's total nonsense and bureaucracy on their part, I could never get a permit from Fish & Wildlife to widen road, cut down trees, alter in-stream culverts.

I think such things start out with completely reasonable standards intended to prevent significant loss of life during a fire, with plenty of leeway built in to allow exceptions like yours.

Then someone starts a fire and the trucks can't get in quickly enough, and someone gets third degree burns over half his body. And he sues the state for ten billion dollars. The case is eventually thrown out, but not before the agencies involved rack up a few million in court costs.

The next time someone asks for an exception, the answer is much simpler - "absolutely not. I don't want to lose another few million."

[SunEagle]

Kalifornia is a fire hazard. We're not allowed to burn the brush out like nature intended to have happen. How did trees in the area get to be 500- 1500 years old. Thick bark to resist natural fires.
Generally, metal carports don't burn. Cal fire is not evaluating on real hazards, they go by building count and imagine 6 people occupy each building, which is why they want a road that can have 3 trucks coming in, and 3 out, to rescue my wife and I. It's total nonsense and bureaucracy on their part, I could never get a permit from Fish & Wildlife to widen road, cut down trees, alter in-stream culverts.

You can always build a helipad for a fast rescue.

[Mike90250]

Kalifornia is a fire hazard. We're not allowed to burn the brush out like nature intended to have happen. How did trees in the area get to be 500- 1500 years old. Thick bark to resist natural fires.
Generally, metal carports don't burn. Cal fire is not evaluating on real hazards, they go by building count and imagine 6 people occupy each building, which is why they want a road that can have 3 trucks coming in, and 3 out, to rescue my wife and I. It's total nonsense and bureaucracy on their part, I could never get a permit from Fish & Wildlife to widen road, cut down trees, alter in-stream culverts.

[J.P.M.]

Well, there's the other side of that coin. We tried to permit some metal carports being used as carports. But now CalFire wants the driveway made to a county road equivalent, fire hydrant 3" system throughout the property, on it's own dedicated storage system (our 2AF pond is only a single point) and a 2nd ingress/egress point. WTF. Try to do the right thing and we can't. So I vote for rural property over 20 acres (not going to affect a neighbor) be exempt, and let the bank take care of assuring their investment is protected. Folks in cities think they mean well, but really are clueless

I'm mostly on the side of libertarianism, but what do you tell the insurance co. ?, particularly if you're somewhat isolated in a fire possible area. Do you also waive the protection, such as it may be provided by CALFIRE or evac. services ? Or do the rest of the clueless taxpayers in non isolated areas get to foot the bill for providing fire services for your desire to live in a fire prone or a less accessible area ? Maybe there's 3 sides or more to the coin.

[Mike90250]

Well, there's the other side of that coin. We tried to permit some metal carports being used as carports. But now CalFire wants the driveway made to a county road equivalent, fire hydrant 3" system throughout the property, on it's own dedicated storage system (our 2AF pond is only a single point) and a 2nd ingress/egress point. WTF. Try to do the right thing and we can't. So I vote for rural property over 20 acres (not going to affect a neighbor) be exempt, and let the bank take care of assuring their investment is protected. Folks in cities think they mean well, but really are clueless

[J.P.M.]

This made me laugh and started me thinking.

Think about this. If CA or really any other state allowed HO's to do what they wanted. Especially in CA with all the bums, homeless, and welfare life styles what the state would look like. Most are probable to young to remember the TV comedy show Sanford and Son. Look it up and you wil get an idea on what CA would look like. It would look like Detroit. You couldn't give away a home. .

I've thought about that very thing 1X/a while for some time. One surmise/conclusion: If such freedoms and building code laxities were generally allowed, CA might start to look more like a fly over state.

The types of folks you describe seem pretty ubiquitous and evenly distributed from my travels.

Seems to me some of the more belligerent types of DIY'ers share a trait with survivalists of not having as good an appreciation of the requirements and commonly expected behavior in a pluralistic society as some others. FWIW, sounds like the OP may have some of those tendencies. Maybe moving to a place with lax/no building codes would be a solution.

[Sunking]

IMO you need to rethink your goals- obtaining permit/inspection is usually doable given you put efforts into learning the rules. It is not a problem if your location allows owner builder status and those rules while seem draconian/against you personally at first are usually for your own and others safety..

This made me laugh and started me thinking.

Think about this. If CA or really any other state allowed HO's to do what they wanted. Especially in CA with all the bums, homeless, and welfare life styles what the state would look like. Most are probable to young to remember the TV comedy show Sanford and Son. Look it up and you wil get an idea on what CA would look like. It would look like Detroit. You couldn't give away a home. .

[littleharbor]

. Anyone who claims otherwise is foolish at best or has some ulterior motive like earning a buck (AKA Ed Begley)

Funny, I bought a bunch of old Solerex 60 watt panels and other equipment from Ed Begley's house. It was an old grid tied with battery back up system.

[peakbagger]

Dragging in the florida situation from a few years ago is not really applicable to the real world. Generally the rules in place are generally for life safety or impact on neighbors and the region. I will qualify that this does not apply to HOA rules that frequently are trying to legislate far more than life safety. Its easy for a reporter to do a flashy story where "the man" is sticking it to some quirky but clueless off beat character. Unfortunately their right to be off beat usually ends when they are impacting their neighbors or they need help. In most built up dense areas individual decisions don't necessarily honor property lines. In the case of when things go bad, and they frequently don't end well, fire and rescue folks who have to enter the property, get put in harms way rescuing the off beat character. We rarely see the same flashy news articles about the final disposition of these disputes.

Some folks also confuse bank requirements with local regulations. When a person gets a mortgage they are voluntarily getting in bed with the bank and the bank needs to assure that in the unlikely situation that they end up with a house by default that they can limit their losses by turning the house around to a new buyer. The banks expectation is the property is marketable and its their responsibility to keep it marketable while in their possession and this can be a real problem lacking basic utilities. If the owner is unhappy with this partnership they need to go looking for another bank willing to accept the risk for a house without standard utilities. Odds are the cost for the mortgage will be higher but they have to price in that extra risk. Same with insurance companies, they are looking at loss data and off the gird homes apparently have a higher rate of losses than conventional homes. While living in VT it was surprising the number of formerly off the grid folks I met who had serious accidents and fires that eventually drove them to sell the home (or what was left of it) and hook up to the grid.

Actually of all the typical utilities, off grid electric can have the least impact on neighbors and I expect if properly designed and permitted a person can argue against a blanket policy that a site has to have grid connected electricity. Unfortunately like a previous poster boasted, he has a system hidden away in a shed that cost him $1,500. I seriously doubt that its meets any known code and probably has some potentially life threatening flaws that could harm fire and rescue personnel as well as others entering the property. Odds are if they get hurt the owner is going to be paying out of pocket for any injuries as I expect an insurance company would object to the claim.

The reality is that someone voluntarily going off the grid with a properly designed and permitted system where grid power is available is doing this on principle rather than an economic reason as the long term cost is going to be several times that of grid power. Anyone who claims otherwise is foolish at best or has some ulterior motive like earning a buck (AKA Ed Begley). If someone is truly doing it out of principle that's another story and more power to them. IMHO there are better ways to help out the environment compared to pissing away dollars on an OTG system like volunteering to spend those wasted dollars helping their less fortunate neighbors reduce their energy usage. The net result is the same on the environment and maybe they will build a sense of community.

[max2k]

foo1bar, thanks for this info. I really want to keep this Off Grid Solar System completely detached from the garage/house/cabin.

IMO you need to rethink your goals- obtaining permit/inspection is usually doable given you put efforts into learning the rules. It is not a problem if your location allows owner builder status and those rules while seem draconian/against you personally at first are usually for your own and others safety. If they didn't exist you'd need to follow some safety guidance anyway so might just as well follow the ones which are there. If your design runs into the wall with those rules 'restrictions' I'd take closer look at the design.

Your real problem is money you're going to lose on the project: even with very careful planning / calculations it is impossible to beat the grid electricity prices.

[Sunking]

Do I need permits, inspections, EE certification for installation, even for a portable solar system?

No not if portable. But it cannot be part of the premises in any shape or form. Not even a wall penetration.

[PNPmacnab]

I'm completely off grid in a very affluent community due to some communication issue and I love it. I'm sure it is totally illegal, at least you can't get a certificate of occupancy without electric. They just put gas on my street and was sure they would connect the dots and find I was not connected to the grid. I have a shed next to the house where I put everything. That might make it a little less offensive to the building inspector if he ever comes around. I have refrigeration,PV hot water, etc and this year the wife wants a dishwasher. And this whole system costs less than $1500. It is a great camp system. But, you can't do that with the crap they want to sell you.

[john95]

If it's not attached to the house in any way it's probably not covered by building permits/codes.
But since you're planning to take it to your camping cabin and permanently install it there it probably needs to be permitted with whoever is the AHJ where your cabin is.
I would not plan on running much of any tools off a solar w/ battery setup. Small tools like those that can be run off a rechargable battery can probably be done. Something larger like an air compressor is likely going to be more than your system can handle.

foo1bar, thanks for this info. I really want to keep this Off Grid Solar System completely detached from the garage/house/cabin.

[foo1bar]

Thanks for correcting me about the 7kW.
Well, for the moment being I just want to provide electricity to my garage (tools, lights, small TV, FM radio, laptop, small stuff, etc). Just for testing purposes. Once I get to know how everything works reliable I'll take it to my camping cabin in the middle of nowhere.

If it's not attached to the house in any way it's probably not covered by building permits/codes.
But since you're planning to take it to your camping cabin and permanently install it there it probably needs to be permitted with whoever is the AHJ where your cabin is.
I would not plan on running much of any tools off a solar w/ battery setup. Small tools like those that can be run off a rechargable battery can probably be done. Something larger like an air compressor is likely going to be more than your system can handle.

[foo1bar]

Well, all want a piece of your bank account. POCOs, cities, politicians, etc. are fighting very hard to avoid people going off grid.

Going off grid is going to mean a bigger chunk of your bank account goes to your power consumption.
Sure it'll be to battery manufacturers and generator manuf. and sellers and all the other equip.
But don't think that it's going to be cheaper to go off-grid if you already have a grid connection.

My experience is the cities, politicians, etc don't care.
The POCO probably cares in the abstract sense but when it comes to an individual customer wanting to disconnect they won't care. it's no difference to them if the house is made to operate off-grid or if the house is abandoned - and a POCO of any size has multiple "customers" who aren't customers any more because the property (or at least the house/buildings) is abandoned.