Shed freezer

[vudu]

You only list 1 battery. That is what determines the system voltage. At 12v it's limited to 10A on the output so you're only getting 120 watts to the batteries.

WWW

Thank you for the info White_Wolf. I'm reexamining my needs vs my wants currently. Thanks for taking the time to let me know. Paul

[Wy_White_Wolf]

Hmm, I'm using the panels in series - does that not make it 24v mode? I'm getting as much as 40v from the panels. I was using a pwm and this mppt definitely 'seems' to work better...

You only list 1 battery. That is what determines the system voltage. At 12v it's limited to 10A on the output so you're only getting 120 watts to the batteries.

WWW

[vudu]

I've been testing my freezer with a kill-a-watt.

Here are some results for those interested.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/igloo-5-1-cu-ft-chest-freezer-white/4580018.p?id=1219098810374&skuId=4580018

Igloo - 5.1 Cu. Ft. Chest Freezer

http://pisces.bbystatic.com/image2/BestBuy_US/images/products/4580/4580018_eg.jpg

The energy star sticker on the fridge says it uses 172 kWh a year or .471 per day - so I'm going to see if I can get to that.
Spoiler - yes. Overall I give this fridge a passing grade.

I'm in Texas - the weather has been surprisingly moderate.

The fridge is sitting on my patio in the shade - probably averaging around 80-84 degrees.

(All these figures are for 24 hour period in kWh.)

Bringing the freezer down to temp the first day, with multiple bottles of water, took 1.5.

On setting 4 the fridge used about .6. On 7, 6.45.

Anytime I added a bottle of water the fridge took approximately .1 more

When I moved the temp setting down to 1 the fridge finally gave me around .45. This with about 6 quart bottles of water. Everything stayed frozen fine.

I put the freezer on a mechanical timer and had it run an hour every 4 hours. It used .3. So, in a quarter of the time on, it used half the kWh. During this I also noticed considerable 'icing' - seems doing this is a recipe for freezer burn. Probably not good for the freezer either, generally. At the end of 24 hours everything was still frozen however.

Then I hooked it up to my 155ah battery/inverter, which has been sitting for about a week. The SoC when I started was 12.84v. I ran it for 12 hours. At that point, the SoC was 12.36. Interestingly, the kWh was .36, so it looks like using the inverter/battery used about 1/4 more kWh which confirms the point Mike90250 made.

Long story short, as those warned me, my system is too small. I'm going to leave the freezer in the garage and fill it more than half with bottled water. I'll use the battery as backup (and keep it floated periodically with a noco ac charger), in case our grid goes down again (twice the last 6 months). If the grid goes down I'll use the bottled water to keep a cooler cool for items in the main fridge. I figure if push comes to shove I can keep the freezer on its feet for maybe 24/36 hours without solar. I can still bring the battery out back and use the panels to charge as best they can.

The panels are charging a 35ah battery now, and it seems a lot more comfortable - I run it down at night with lights and fans to about 12.6v. It floats by about 11am to noon. I run the fans in the afternoon on full throttle - 'for free' (this is the most intriguing part of my solar adventure thus far - how to use that wasted energy effectively).

It's been a fun experiment. Cheers, Paul

[vudu]

10amps is what the output is limited to. So you're only getting 120watts out of the 200 watts of panels. May as well have saved your money and got a PWM controller. The 260W rating is for 24V mode. It's only rated for 130W is 12V mode.

WWW

Hmm, I'm using the panels in series - does that not make it 24v mode? I'm getting as much as 40v from the panels. I was using a pwm and this mppt definitely 'seems' to work better.

Since the freezer is outside in a shed your summer KWH are going to be a lot higher. The estimated numbers are for it being in a house that is temperature controlled. Mine that is in the garage uses about 4 times the power in the summer. Your system is way undersized because of this.
WWW

I'm getting the feeling it may be undersized All true.

The best I've gotten thus far is .62kwh over a day. It was cool last night - so I might get it down to .55. I still have not hooked it to the a johnson control and turned it into a fridge. We'll see, if nothing else I'll have learned something.


Thanks! Paul

[Wy_White_Wolf]

Will do, thanks Mike90250.



It is rated up to 260 watts. I'm using the panels in series - insuring the amps don't get over the rated 10. I need more panels for this batt, that is pretty clear - and therefore will need to upgrade the CC as well at that time. Was considering adding another panel in series, exceeding the 260 but still not going over the amps. :

10amps is what the output is limited to. So you're only getting 120watts out of the 200 watts of panels. May as well have saved your money and got a PWM controller. The 260W rating is for 24V mode. It's only rated for 130W is 12V mode.

Last night, I turned off the gen after 4 hours, and the freezer seemed well on the way to freezing - but the shed was noticeably hotter. So I plugged it in to a LONG extension chord and this morning the compressor was still running - and the water never totally froze. All in all it was about 14 hours and it had used over .6 kwh. Not surprising I guess since it was not stabilized but I was certainly surprised it had not frozen the water. I'm going to let it sit for 24 hours unplugged. Maybe I needed to let the coolant settle after being on its side in the trip to my house. It was doing an awful lot of gurgling

Since the freezer is outside in a shed your summer KWH are going to be a lot higher. The estimated numbers are for it being in a house that is temperature controlled. Mine that is in the garage uses about 4 times the power in the summer. Your system is way undersized because of this.

WWW

[vudu]

What is the make and model of that Renology 10amp MPPT Charge controller?. Without that info I am guessing at what it's ratings are.

If it is an MPPT then 260 watt charging a 12v battery will draw 20amps. If it is a PWM CC then most of those do not have a high DC voltage input rating so wiring more than two panels in series will exceed the maximum.

MPPT Tracer1210RN Solar Charge Controller Regulator 12/24V INPUT 10A


http://www.amazon.com/Tracer1210RN-S...ds=tracer+mppt

Oy ! If you ever have to move a compressor unit, I always let it sit upright several hours after the last move. Then plug it in for about 1 minute, and unplug for an hour. Plug in for 5 min, and then unplug for an hour. You have to get all the oil back down into the compressor motor, or you burn it up.

I had to set it on its side to get it home. Not more than an hour. Let it sit upright for 6 hours before plugging in.

I've got it sitting on my patio now - seems to be running fine now - but not quite getting to the advertised .468 kWh advertised. The kill-a-watt thing is a neat tool. Wish I had that years ago.

One of the things about solar is it really gets you to look at the size/efficiency of things. I'm not going to try to put it on solar unless I can get it down to ~.25kwh

Mike's right. You don't have the time to wait around for the 7A Noco, but it will do great on your car!

A better bet would be a Samlex SEC1230ul. You have to provide the clamps or cabling, but this is a big step above a typical vehicle charger / maintainer. You can read the manual for it online, and you'll see what I mean. I have chargers coming out my ears because I'm a freak, but in this instance Mike is quite right.

I've got the noco 7amp now so it better work :P

I think I will use it to maintain my 155ah batt - off solar. If the grid goes down I'll use it for the fridge.

I'm selling the generator. No like

Cheers all and thanks for the advice. Paul

[PNjunction]

That noco 7A charger is too small, it's a battery maintainer, and you need to charge much faster, to keep your generator runtime manageable. 7A to charge that battery when it's got 50A taken out, needs 60A going back in, so that's 8 hours genset time, at light load, burning fuel. 30A for 2 hours would be a better bet, early in the AM, and let the solar finish it off !

Mike's right. You don't have the time to wait around for the 7A Noco, but it will do great on your car!

A better bet would be a Samlex SEC1230ul. You have to provide the clamps or cabling, but this is a big step above a typical vehicle charger / maintainer. You can read the manual for it online, and you'll see what I mean. I have chargers coming out my ears because I'm a freak, but in this instance Mike is quite right.

[Mike90250]

Maybe I needed to let the coolant settle after being on its side in the trip to my house. It was doing an awful lot of gurgling

Oy ! If you ever have to move a compressor unit, I always let it sit upright several hours after the last move. Then plug it in for about 1 minute, and unplug for an hour. Plug in for 5 min, and then unplug for an hour. You have to get all the oil back down into the compressor motor, or you burn it up.

[SunEagle]

Will do, thanks Mike90250.



It is rated up to 260 watts. I'm using the panels in series - insuring the amps don't get over the rated 10. I need more panels for this batt, that is pretty clear - and therefore will need to upgrade the CC as well at that time. Was considering adding another panel in series, exceeding the 260 but still not going over the amps.

Last night, I turned off the gen after 4 hours, and the freezer seemed well on the way to freezing - but the shed was noticeably hotter. So I plugged it in to a LONG extension chord and this morning the compressor was still running - and the water never totally froze. All in all it was about 14 hours and it had used over .6 kwh. Not surprising I guess since it was not stabilized but I was certainly surprised it had not frozen the water. I'm going to let it sit for 24 hours unplugged. Maybe I needed to let the coolant settle after being on its side in the trip to my house. It was doing an awful lot of gurgling

What is the make and model of that Renology 10amp MPPT Charge controller?. Without that info I am guessing at what it's ratings are.

If it is an MPPT then 260 watt charging a 12v battery will draw 20amps. If it is a PWM CC then most of those do not have a high DC voltage input rating so wiring more than two panels in series will exceed the maximum.

[vudu]

That noco 7A charger is too small, it's a battery maintainer, and you need to charge much faster, to keep your generator runtime manageable. 7A to charge that battery when it's got 50A taken out, needs 60A going back in, so that's 8 hours genset time, at light load, burning fuel. 30A for 2 hours would be a better bet, early in the AM, and let the solar finish it off !

Will do, thanks Mike90250.

You will also need to increase the size of that solar charge controller. 10amp is too small for both the 155Ah battery and 200 watts of panels.

It is rated up to 260 watts. I'm using the panels in series - insuring the amps don't get over the rated 10. I need more panels for this batt, that is pretty clear - and therefore will need to upgrade the CC as well at that time. Was considering adding another panel in series, exceeding the 260 but still not going over the amps.

Last night, I turned off the gen after 4 hours, and the freezer seemed well on the way to freezing - but the shed was noticeably hotter. So I plugged it in to a LONG extension chord and this morning the compressor was still running - and the water never totally froze. All in all it was about 14 hours and it had used over .6 kwh. Not surprising I guess since it was not stabilized but I was certainly surprised it had not frozen the water. I'm going to let it sit for 24 hours unplugged. Maybe I needed to let the coolant settle after being on its side in the trip to my house. It was doing an awful lot of gurgling

[SunEagle]

10A Solar Charge Controller too small

You will also need to increase the size of that solar charge controller. 10amp is too small for both the 155Ah battery and 200 watts of panels.

[Mike90250]

That noco 7A charger is too small, it's a battery maintainer, and you need to charge much faster, to keep your generator runtime manageable. 7A to charge that battery when it's got 50A taken out, needs 60A going back in, so that's 8 hours genset time, at light load, burning fuel. 30A for 2 hours would be a better bet, early in the AM, and let the solar finish it off !

[vudu]

So, a mod-sine inverter will increase your power consumption initially by 20%, because of losses in the motor being fed with square waves (that's what mod-sine is, a palatable way to market square wave inverters)

So now it consumes 120watts instead of 100watts, and will need to run 20% LONGER to get rid of that excess heat (compressor motors are sealed inside the coolant system). It will also be noisier and the motor will not last as long.

I'm not surprised. I have not been impressed with the inverter. Nothing scientific, or numbers to point to, but it 'seems' inefficient. It is huge and loud - the fan runs - even when there is no real load (a 30w fan).

I think when/if I do another system, I'll use a pure sine.

You are going to need several more panels to keep it working.

Probably so.

Most generator 12V outputs are only rated to charge their own starting battery, 3-9 amps output. You will be better off with an automotive charger in the 30A range, instead of the little internal charger.

I've got one of these coming.

http://www.amazon.com/NOCO-G7200-Ult.../dp/B004LWTHP2

That will be my 'fix' (since this does not work on the gen).

The other thing about running a generator on propane, is intake valve lubrication. With propane, there is none. It would be nice to treat the engine intake to a squirt of aerosol oil spray after start-up. Engine forums can advice you better on it.

Sea foam:

http://www.amazon.com/Sea-Foam-SF-16...words=Sea+Foam


I'll, pick some up and keep that in mind next time I start. This gen does not have long legs and will need all the love I can give it to keep it together. This is only the second time I've started it and it really shakes and rattles. And the propane burning does not seem all that clean. It smells.


It is coming up on a couple hours now - I looked in the freezer - and the water jugs are near frozen. The freezer works at least :P

[Mike90250]

The other thing about running a generator on propane, is intake valve lubrication. With propane, there is none. It would be nice to treat the engine intake to a squirt of aerosol oil spray after start-up. Engine forums can advice you better on it.
(Sea Foam makes a good spray to use)

[Mike90250]

- 1500w inverter modified sine wave (windy nation)

So, a mod-sine inverter will increase your power consumption initially by 20%, because of losses in the motor being fed with square waves (that's what mod-sine is, a palatable way to market square wave inverters)

So now it consumes 120watts instead of 100watts, and will need to run 20% LONGER to get rid of that excess heat (compressor motors are sealed inside the coolant system). It will also be noisier and the motor will not last as long.

You are going to need several more panels to keep it working.

Most generator 12V outputs are only rated to charge their own starting battery, 3-9 amps output. You will be better off with an automotive charger in the 30A range, instead of the little internal charger.