MIT report "The Future of Solar Energy"

[russ]

The US GDP has increased in that time period, it is just that the Chinese has been growing faster. US living standards will increase the future, which is what matters. Who cares if the USA has less geopolitical power. The control of resources will be less important to economic well being in the future. We are on the verge of cheap power renewable power provided from the sun and wind. Electric cars will cheaper than gasoline cars in a few years, which mean that America won't be dependent of petrol anymore.

What kind of stuff are you smoking? Or possibly you are just delusional?

[solar_future]

Who said anything about Crime?

Yes I know USA is second, it is the decline that is frightening. USA in 2002 rated 30% of world production. China in 2002 was not even on the radar or tracked until 2004 with only 5% and passed USA in 2010. Latest government figures in 2013 show China world production is 25% and USA has fallen to 17%. When you consider China has only been in the game since 2004 and only 10% developed is quite alarming. When the country is 50% developed will be a Juggernaut with all other countries added together will be a distant 2nd with China calling all the shots, having all the power to control the world economics.

2013 Stats Here

The US GDP has increased in that time period, it is just that the Chinese has been growing faster. US living standards will increase the future, which is what matters. Who cares if the USA has less geopolitical power. The control of resources will be less important to economic well being in the future. We are on the verge of cheap power renewable power provided from the sun and wind. Electric cars will cheaper than gasoline cars in a few years, which mean that America won't be dependent of petrol anymore.

[Sunking]

Second largest after China. Much higher than China per capita

I suppose you think crime in the U.S. has increased too since your youth.

Who said anything about Crime?

Yes I know USA is second, it is the decline that is frightening. USA in 2002 rated 30% of world production. China in 2002 was not even on the radar or tracked until 2004 with only 5% and passed USA in 2010. Latest government figures in 2013 show China world production is 25% and USA has fallen to 17%. When you consider China has only been in the game since 2004 and only 10% developed is quite alarming. When the country is 50% developed will be a Juggernaut with all other countries added together will be a distant 2nd with China calling all the shots, having all the power to control the world economics.

2013 Stats Here

[russ]

Me and the FBI. But don't let facts get in the way of your core beliefs.

Bull**** to be polite about it. Statistics tell exactly what the presenter wants them to say. Stuff your "core beliefs".

Such things are always presented in a manner most suitable to their political masters - like the military trying to go to green fuel.

[bberry]

You don't? I really don't think anyone can be that dumb.

Me and the FBI. But don't let facts get in the way of your core beliefs.

[russ]

I suppose you think crime in the U.S. has increased too since your youth.

You don't? I really don't think anyone can be that dumb.

[bberry]

Pete it is not just Solar Panels, it is everything. The USA use to be a manufacturing economy, not anymore with a few exceptions.

Second largest after China. Much higher than China per capita

Apple does not make a single product in the USA.

The Mac Pro is made in Texas

I suppose you think crime in the U.S. has increased too since your youth.

[russ]

Not to mention the increased tax rates in the developed world to pay for social programs for the sick, lame and lazy.

For that matter increased taxes to pay for subsidies of many things.

India and China don't have that burden.

[J.P.M.]

Pete it is not just Solar Panels, it is everything. The USA use to be a manufacturing economy, not anymore with a few exceptions. The USA, Australia, Europe, or really any developed country cannot compete with China and India manufacturing. Soar is just one of many thousands of product examples. The largest US electronic manufacture Apple does not make a single product in the USA. If they did Apple would not be who and what they are today. Same can be said for Microsoft, GE and hundreds of other US companies. Today manufacturing is outsourced. It all started in the USA just after WW-II when we lost electronic manufacturing to Japan. Now that Japan is developed they lost their manufacturing. It will be a very long time before China and India will be developed.

Increased communication and increased physical mobility have made many things much more fungible. One of those things is labor.

[Sunking]

I remember Evergreen, they were the first panel we used when we started the Oz solar business, I loved them, put them on me mums house, 8 years and still going strong. Its a pity the govt over there took so long to realize the chinese were cheating, free trade my arse.

Pete it is not just Solar Panels, it is everything. The USA use to be a manufacturing economy, not anymore with a few exceptions. The USA, Australia, Europe, or really any developed country cannot compete with China and India manufacturing. Soar is just one of many thousands of product examples. The largest US electronic manufacture Apple does not make a single product in the USA. If they did Apple would not be who and what they are today. Same can be said for Microsoft, GE and hundreds of other US companies. Today manufacturing is outsourced. It all started in the USA just after WW-II when we lost electronic manufacturing to Japan. Now that Japan is developed they lost their manufacturing. It will be a very long time before China and India will be developed.

[solar pete]

We all know MIT track record on solar from the panel manufacture company they started. It lost close to about 1 billion of tax payers dollars and swindled hundreds of investors and millions of stock holders out of money. No one even remembers Evergreen Solar. Chi-Coms now own the technology.

I remember Evergreen, they were the first panel we used when we started the Oz solar business, I loved them, put them on me mums house, 8 years and still going strong. Its a pity the govt over there took so long to realize the chinese were cheating, free trade my arse.

[Sunking]

NASA has spun off more goodies than probably any other company in history

Yeah like solar, Tang, MRE's [meals ready to eat in a barf bad), zero gravity toilets, and penis pumps.

[russ]

Risk nothing - be nothing. Fortune often does favor the bold.

I thought that one of perhaps several original purposes of gov. research was to look into stuff that industry wouldn't/couldn't because it was a long shot.

I believe that most of that concept morphed into bureaucratic white collar welfare, but the idea seemed sound the first time I heard it. A BIT more selectivity in the choice of where to spend assets would perhaps help.

Such as keeping Stephen Chu out of it - political choices what I saw

Goverment research should support what no sane company will go after. NASA has spun off more goodies than probably any other company in history

[J.P.M.]

The problem with investing in R&D is that not all ideas being researched and developed are viable. So if the government backs the wrong horse, and not 100% of projects move forward, then they are forever dragged through the mud for "wasting tax payer dollars". Not all investments are winners, and unless people can accept that some will succeed and some will fail, investing in R&D will be a target. Curt Shilling got a $75M loan guarantee for his video game company, that ended up going bankrupt. Yet I never hear anyone condemning the video game industry like you hear about the solar industry. And yes, I remember Evergreen Solar very very well. They were from my home town, I knew a lot of the engineers, I sold a lot of their panels, and lost a bit of money in their stock. But I don't judge the whole industry because their innovative panels couldn't compete with the heavily gov't subsidized Chinese panels that flooded the market.

Risk nothing - be nothing. Fortune often does favor the bold.

I thought that one of perhaps several original purposes of gov. research was to look into stuff that industry wouldn't/couldn't because it was a long shot.

I believe that most of that concept morphed into bureaucratic white collar welfare, but the idea seemed sound the first time I heard it. A BIT more selectivity in the choice of where to spend assets would perhaps help.

[russ]

R&D is a project for the government - both through government labs and their support for the universities. No reason for the feds to support industry R&D costs as it is too easy for the companies to cheat.

No way the feds should pick winners and losers - they have proven to be totally incapable