Don't think solar system is operating as it should

[Logan005]

I solved this problem with a temperature differential controller. E-bay has 110volt and low voltage units that will eliminate your heating the great outdoors.

[LucMan]

So it has been awhile for me getting this project done but I ended up going with 2 4x8 Heliodyne panels and did the install with the help of my plumber who has been awesome helping us get this project as well as a new boiler and hot water tank for our radiant floor heating.

So my experience with this company has been a real struggle on the customer service side of my purchase but will say that they do seem to have a good quality product and my system is running awesome and I could not be happier with the outcome. So my issue with this company is their lack of caring about the customer after the purchase.

What happened is I purchased these panels and they were delivered to my house with NO directions on handling or storage. They came on a very large pallet (That they charged me over $200 I think) and were covered with cardboard and held to the pallet with steel straps. I could not get to installing them for two weeks and it rained in that time. On the day we were to install I pull off the cover and see the following under the glass (photo 1). So after seeing this my plumber and I discussed it and I did not feel comfortable installing it so we installed the good one. After over a month of phone calls and emails to the customer service rep she pretty much told me to go pack sand and use it. During this time another spot showed up with NO other rain (see photo 2). Both of these water condensation spots caused discoloration on the specially coated aluminum sheet under the glass. My complaint to the company was that I paid for a brand new product and was not given one. They told me it would work just fine and just install it.

I am not familiar with the Heliodyne flat plates, but the brands that I have installed will collect condensation during a no sun condition. Once the sun hits the panels the condensation evaporates and is eliminated through the vent holes in the panels. It is not a problem and does not effect the performance of the panel.
Moisture enters those same vent holes over night and during cold overcast days.
I did have a set of panels that the manufacturer sourced the shipping strip under the collector from a new supplier that used a different formulation in the rubber. The high temperatures broke down the shipping strip and the gasses created condensed on the inside of the glazing after a year. The large brown stain did not effect the performance of the panel, but labor for the removal of the stain was covered under warranty.

[solar pete]

Howdy FED565, welcome back Thanks for chiming in with the update to your system, cheers

[FED565]

So it has been awhile for me getting this project done but I ended up going with 2 4x8 Heliodyne panels and did the install with the help of my plumber who has been awesome helping us get this project as well as a new boiler and hot water tank for our radiant floor heating.

So my experience with this company has been a real struggle on the customer service side of my purchase but will say that they do seem to have a good quality product and my system is running awesome and I could not be happier with the outcome. So my issue with this company is their lack of caring about the customer after the purchase.

What happened is I purchased these panels and they were delivered to my house with NO directions on handling or storage. They came on a very large pallet (That they charged me over $200 I think) and were covered with cardboard and held to the pallet with steel straps. I could not get to installing them for two weeks and it rained in that time. On the day we were to install I pull off the cover and see the following under the glass (photo 1). So after seeing this my plumber and I discussed it and I did not feel comfortable installing it so we installed the good one. After over a month of phone calls and emails to the customer service rep she pretty much told me to go pack sand and use it. During this time another spot showed up with NO other rain (see photo 2). Both of these water condensation spots caused discoloration on the specially coated aluminum sheet under the glass. My complaint to the company was that I paid for a brand new product and was not given one. They told me it would work just fine and just install it.

Well if you bought a new Porsche and it came with a huge scratch on the hood but the dealer told you it was still fast and worked just fine, would you take it? These were not cheap and I was pretty miffed at not getting a "new" condition product. So I ended up e-mailing the main salesman and he actually came to my house and looked at the panel. During this visit he tells me that the panels should of been covered with plastic by the people who dropped them off at my house, well they did not and I end up having to pay for this mistake. Now all this has taken over a month and put my project off as well as taking up hours of time of my plumber that is costing ME money. He is a nice guy and addresses my issues and we remove the glass and he tried to clean the specially coated aluminum piece but it is totally stained. In the end we end up installing it as he says they will make it right. Well making it right was giving us free glycol (total joke). They also said they would extend the warranty but I felt I still did not get a new product and found out just a week ago that they ended up firing the customer service rep.

Just like I stated at the start I am pleased with the product and feel it is a quality piece but the I would expect more customer service from an American company who says they stand behind their product. Just my opinion.

I have included a pic of the finished product.

[FED565]

I wish your sympathy would help.
As I sit here typing this the temp is 12 F with the wind gusting to 30 mph. The forcast is for -4F tonight with winds to 50 mph.

Not our problem on the west coast. Was over 70 yesterday and in shorts and flip flops when we should be skiing. Quick note on the temp, I did turn my system on yesterday due to the extremely high temp and my system did end up flowing around 130 degrees for a while in the peak of the day but it fell off quick to around 110 after all the built up heat in the panels got purged.

Plumber coming to day so hopefully will have a plan.

[J.P.M.]

I wish your sympathy would help.
As I sit here typing this the temp is 12 F with the wind gusting to 30 mph. The forcast is for -4F tonight with winds to 50 mph.

After some reflection, had I used empathy, it would have been more a more apt word choice than sympathy. Either way, the middle of Feb. was sort of the half way point of the winter campaign as I seem to remember. Hang in there.

[LucMan]

I spent most of the first 45 years of my life living/working in upstate NY. I think I understand some of your predicament. Mine was similar. I solved it. You have my sympathies if you want them, especially in the winter.

FWIW, I've found the regulatory, In Loco Parentis attitude to be of about the same intensity and intent in either state. I think the OP's in NV - where, I suspect, they don't regulate too terribly much beyond gambling & prostitution. My post was simply to suggest that a decent, fit for purpose SDHWS doesn't need to cost as much as a small/med. size PV system. $ 6,500 ? - probably not, but $15K ? - probably can be beat in many areas. No insult/argument/ill will intended.

I wish your sympathy would help.
As I sit here typing this the temp is 12 F with the wind gusting to 30 mph. The forcast is for -4F tonight with winds to 50 mph.

[J.P.M.]

Now add in a dual coil stainless tank and piping, UV resistant insulation or covering, drainback tank, architectural fees, building permit fees, inspection fees, paper work for the ruling solar energy grant entity, profit & overhead, and mandatory 5 year parts & labor warranty.
Wellcome to NY.

I spent most of the first 45 years of my life living/working in upstate NY. I think I understand some of your predicament. Mine was similar. I solved it. You have my sympathies if you want them, especially in the winter.

FWIW, I've found the regulatory, In Loco Parentis attitude to be of about the same intensity and intent in either state. I think the OP's in NV - where, I suspect, they don't regulate too terribly much beyond gambling & prostitution. My post was simply to suggest that a decent, fit for purpose SDHWS doesn't need to cost as much as a small/med. size PV system. $ 6,500 ? - probably not, but $15K ? - probably can be beat in many areas. No insult/argument/ill will intended.

[LucMan]

I don't doubt your word, but $15K seems kinda' high. In 2008 paid ~$6,500 before tax credit to redo everything on a direct solar DHW system except replace the 80 gal. tank and the diff. controller. New Sunearth coll., new pump, piping, including labor. As I recall, the panels were $864 ea.( 2 X 32 ft.^2, sel. surf.) and the pump was $264 (TACO 008, st. stl.), a couple of decent flow meters, some pressure gages, about a doz. Nibco valves, etc., 3/4" copper piping under 1" thk. Armaflex closed cell insulation, and something like 30 hrs. of labor to my contractor under my direction. I realize direct comparisons are difficult, and I did the engineering, but still.

Now add in a dual coil stainless tank and piping, UV resistant insulation or covering, drainback tank, architectural fees, building permit fees, inspection fees, paper work for the ruling solar energy grant entity, profit & overhead, and mandatory 5 year parts & labor warranty.
Wellcome to NY.

[J.P.M.]

Yes you can run the return line on the back of the panels. Just disconnect the existing return from the header, cap and connect to the other side. Pretty easy if you know how to solder. The hard part is refilling & purging the air after reconnecting.

Here in NY a 64 sq ft drain back system with 80 gallon storeage runs around $15k installed before rebates & tax credits etc.

Don't believe any claims about panels that are freeze resistant down to -20 with water. How long has that manufacturer been in business?

I don't doubt your word, but $15K seems kinda' high. In 2008 paid ~$6,500 before tax credit to redo everything on a direct solar DHW system except replace the 80 gal. tank and the diff. controller. New Sunearth coll., new pump, piping, including labor. As I recall, the panels were $864 ea.( 2 X 32 ft.^2, sel. surf.) and the pump was $264 (TACO 008, st. stl.), a couple of decent flow meters, some pressure gages, about a doz. Nibco valves, etc., 3/4" copper piping under 1" thk. Armaflex closed cell insulation, and something like 30 hrs. of labor to my contractor under my direction. I realize direct comparisons are difficult, and I did the engineering, but still.

[FED565]

Thanks for the reply, I am just getting an estimate to see what the actual cost is for replacement. I am sure it will not be cheap. The good part of it is I would only need panels and some controls as I have a 120 gallon tank now.

I did end up getting in touch with my plumber who did the install on my water heater and boiler. I explained everything that has been happening and about the piping being wrong so he is coming over soon so we can see how we can re-pipe it and put in some temperature controls for the solar pump. I will keep you updated as I would like to see if I can get this system to work.

[LucMan]

If I were to redo the piping could I run the return line on the outside of the panels as it looks like there is no space inside to do this? I would have it really insulated of course.

I have someone coming over next week to give me an estimate just so I have some idea of what a replacement cost is, but I would like to at least try and get this system going if I can.

I am sure I can get my questions answered here, all of you have been very informative and helpful. Supposed to be nice this weekend so I was going to get back up on the roof and really look at things so I will probably be posting some more pics and questions.

thanks
Scott

Yes you can run the return line on the back of the panels. Just disconnect the existing return from the header, cap and connect to the other side. Pretty easy if you know how to solder. The hard part is refilling & purging the air after reconnecting.

Here in NY a 64 sq ft drain back system with 80 gallon storeage runs around $15k installed before rebates & tax credits etc.

Don't believe any claims about panels that are freeze resistant down to -20 with water. How long has that manufacturer been in business?

[FED565]

I highly recommend Bob Ramlow's book. He's my mentor, and the book is terrific. http://www.arthaonline.com/bookpage.html

Thank you for that reference I will be ordering the book.

[FED565]

Hey thanks for the input, and you are correct I really need to educate myself on this subject and my first step was joining this site (I have already learned a lot). I will look into getting more information/educational material.

Also, I am was going to get a few estimates from different vendors just to see what each has to say. I did find a local plumber who is a dealer and installer for Hydrodyne so I was going to contact him as well.

[Amy@altE]

IMO, you'd be money/time/hassle ahead by spending 20 bucks on a solar residential book on thermal systems. Read/study it and you'll probably know more than most peddlers and be better able to make informed choices about renew/updating vs. scrapping what you have, and also get some background/insight into what you've learned here so far.

I highly recommend Bob Ramlow's book. He's my mentor, and the book is terrific. http://www.arthaonline.com/bookpage.html